There is something wrong with this conversation,someone is missing
something critical about words. They do mean what they mean and when
you change them into other words or other meanings bad things can
happen. A case in point: maximum side 600 pixels. This is clear? It
describes rather economically how big an image (not, notice, big of)
you should send somewhere. If the biggest side is 600 pixels then the
image must be somewhere in the .4 megabyte range and the eight inch
screen range and all  is good.  If the size is 600 pixels all is not
good, the image can be only 30 x20 pixels.  and the delightful
megapixel calculator (http://web.forret.com/tools/megapixel.asp?) will
only admit to bytes or  bits. No k. Twice now well meaning people have
changed side to size and then argued about it.  And yes, I said well
meaning. I don't want to know  what they are getting at,there is no
notion here , and if they don't say what I told them they have not done
 what they were asked to do-transmit a message. It is very clear in
this instance that they don't know what I was saying, that they have
not thought out what they are saying,and there is no more room for this
sort of thing in a philosophical discussion than in this workaday image
transmission requirement. Less, considering the harm badly understood
or expressed philosophy can do. Excusing error is not a valid response,
nor is nitpicking the first statement(600 pixels a side in this case)
to death-the narrowly avoided other side of misunderstanding it. I have
been asked during the course of this image discussion what I meant by
side.
Kate Sullivan
-----Original Message-----
From: Cheerskep <[email protected]>
To: aesthetics-l <[email protected]>
Sent: Mon, Jul 30, 2012 1:04 pm
Subject: Re: is list dead? re Chris's position

Chris writes:

"when I say "why not try and understand what
they are getting at, from their viewpoint", I am simply suggesting
applying
a little philosophical charity (don't leave home without it), and assume
that within the framework of their own natural language (art, science,
whatever) their statements have validity."

Chris, two points. 1) Your position assumes that whenever you hear/read
a
lister's words you see what notion he has in mind, what his "statement"
was
intended to "express". I've noticed how often people on the list
consistently
assume they're doing that when they're not. How would I know? By
observing
how often they don't get what I myself was trying to convey -- because
I had
been too dimwitted to find the words that would occasion the desired
notion
in the reader's mind. That's why I urge that we take the time to
describe
as clearly as we can the notion we have in mind with key words. I grant
that
this can make for tedium, and I regret that. I don't think any other
lister
exceeds me in making people reach for Preparation-H.

But I find it more tedious when I perceive people talking past each
other
because it's obvious to me they have different notions in mind even
though
they're using the same words.

2) You urge: "assume that within the framework of their own natural
language (art, science, whatever) their statements have validity." I
can't be
totally sure what you have in mind with "validity", but, off my
interpretation of
your intent, I have to respond that this I can't do. Consider the
muddled
or incomplete notions that many listers have recently had in mind when
they
used the word 'essence'. One lister defined it as "the minimum needed
to
distinguish one thing from another". When it was pointed out that
'thing' was
ambiguous there -- did he mean distinguish a tiger from a lion, or one
tiger
from another -- he felt he should improve his "definition" to make
clear he
meant "kinds", not individuals. But that merely introduced another
ambiguity
--   the word 'kind'has been the subject of reams of argument in
philosophical journals. Our lister would not accept that "Ted Bundy is
a different kind
of person from Mother Teresa" because, in the lister's view all persons
are
of the "same kind". In other words he tended toward the notion "natural
kinds" that Kripke et al maintain. However, most of us would use the
very
general word 'kind' to talk about all sorts of differences other than
"natural
kinds". I was sure his original notion of "essence" was confused, so I
questioned it. This is different from your position that I initially
should have
accepted that "within the framework of his own natural language (art,
science,
whatever) his statements have validity". Questioned, the lister
immediately
changed his definition. Boorish though it may seem to you, Chris, I'll
stick with my position.

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