As I see it, for backup or solar applications, all that really matters is $/kWH, lifespan, and temperature tolerance (and that generally doesn't even matter if they're not outside). Are there any realistic advantages from lithiums other than size/weight? That's obviously important for a cell phone or an electric car, but it's pretty much irrelevant for what we're talking about doing.
On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 9:18 AM Chuck McCown <[email protected]> wrote: > I only care about $/kWH > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 13, 2020, at 5:05 PM, TJ Trout <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Chuck, if you are after high kw/h and don't mind low density, the Leaf > packs are really awesome, the modules are basically made to be modularly > packed, you can use all-thread. Several off the shelf PCB's available to > make them into 8s, 16s packs with all of the cell voltages already pinned > out, basically a diy kit is available to make them into packs and they are > sub $100/kwh > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 1:05 PM TJ Trout <[email protected]> wrote: > >> all of the batteries batteryhookup.com and bigbattery.com are _used_ or >> new old stock, nothing new. >> >> On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 1:02 PM TJ Trout <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> you get what you pay for, all of these guys guarantee the models to >>> discharge to the specs they provide or money back >>> >>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 11:17 AM Robert <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> You should be aware, that bigbattery.com is selling _used_ batteries. >>>> For example the 24v "powerwall" 3KWh unit for $699 is a used unit per Will >>>> Prowse. His testing showed 67% degradation from new. What the cycle life >>>> of a 67% depleted battery array is unknown.. >>>> >>>> On 2/13/20 10:54 AM, [email protected] wrote: >>>> >>>> Hoboy does she have some nice batteries... >>>> >>>> *From:* Brian Webster >>>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 13, 2020 11:49 AM >>>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? >>>> >>>> >>>> Same here…… >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thank you, >>>> >>>> Brian Webster >>>> >>>> www.wirelessmapping.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* AF [mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]>] *On >>>> Behalf Of *Mathew Howard >>>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 13, 2020 12:41 PM >>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I'm afraid to click on that link... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 10:50 AM TJ Trout <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Also bigbattery.com is another good source >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2020, 8:46 AM Steve Jones <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> some guy named ron is coming over to charge my batteries now >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 10:20 AM Brian Webster < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> To make sure you get the proper connectors, why else? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thank you, >>>> >>>> Brian Webster >>>> >>>> www.wirelessmapping.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* AF [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown >>>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 13, 2020 10:42 AM >>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I wonder why they want to know my gender? >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Feb 13, 2020, at 3:22 AM, TJ Trout <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Battery hookup.com has the modules, don't buy them all guys. They say >>>> Daly BMS works good. Make sure you get a bms with low temp and low voltage >>>> disconnect. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2020, 6:26 PM <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Do tell. Where do you get the batts? What BMS are you using? >>>> >>>> Do you want to resell? I would volunteer to be logistics and >>>> fulfillment if you want. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* TJ Trout >>>> >>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 12, 2020 7:19 PM >>>> >>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>> >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Guys, every chemistry of lithium battery (lifepo4, li-ion, lto, etc) >>>> are available in 1 to 10 KW modules at less than $100 a kilowatt hour most >>>> of them test between 70 to 99% of the rated capacity mostly removed from >>>> electric vehicles anyways we repurpose them into storage for our equipment >>>> you just need a 48 volt BMS to balance the cells and provide low >>>> temperature and low voltage protection. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2020, 5:50 PM Robert <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> They have three problems.. 1) Cost.. Yeah they break the bank. 2) >>>> low voltage compared to other chemistries, which means _more_ cost 3) poor >>>> efficiency.. You put in 100 watts, you only get 80 watts out. All of >>>> this is from listening to Will Prowse.. He has an excellent set of tubes >>>> on them... >>>> >>>> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoj6RxIAQq8kmJme-5dnN0Q >>>> >>>> On 2/12/20 5:33 PM, Steve Jones wrote: >>>> >>>> these they say are good for subzero charging, thats what appeals to me >>>> and that the subzero doesnt affect discharge rate >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 6:39 PM Robert Andrews <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Lithiums degrade with temps over 130 degrees F ( depending upon >>>> chemistry and if you attempt to charge them below freezing. Failure >>>> can >>>> result from trying to charge below freezing. Between those extremes >>>> they do pretty well. The below freezing is a deal breaker for outside >>>> solar. There are manufacturers ( BattleBorn + others ) that are >>>> coming >>>> out with heaters to get around that. >>>> >>>> On 02/12/2020 04:21 PM, Mathew Howard wrote: >>>> > I'm wondering how well lithiums hold up compared to flooded cells in >>>> a >>>> > non-environmentally controlled area. I suspect it's worse. >>>> > >>>> > On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 6:20 PM <[email protected] >>>> > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > In my 42+ years of dealing with stationary flooded cells is that >>>> you >>>> > can >>>> > easily get 20+ years from them if they are properly maintained and >>>> > kept in >>>> > an environmentally controlled area. >>>> > >>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>> > From: Bill Prince >>>> > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 5:04 PM >>>> > To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? >>>> > >>>> > I think you would expect at least 2-3 times the life with lithium >>>> > (almost all the various chemistries currently in vogue). You can >>>> also >>>> > increase discharge tolerance to 80-90 percent instead of the usual >>>> > lead-acid 50% (or thereabouts). >>>> > >>>> > I think the cost is still a bit over the top. Maybe another year >>>> or two >>>> > depending. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > bp >>>> > <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>>> > >>>> > On 2/12/2020 3:47 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: >>>> > > Life also matters. >>>> > > >>>> > > Half the cost but has to be replaced in half the time would not >>>> > be a good >>>> > > deal. With my luck, if batteries die after 3 years, I'll have >>>> a >>>> > big power >>>> > > outage every 37 months. And it's not just a cost calculation. >>>> > Lugging >>>> > > half >>>> > > a ton of new batteries out to a tower and then hauling the old >>>> > ones back >>>> > > for >>>> > > recycling sucks. So if someone has battery technology that >>>> lasts >>>> > 10 or 20 >>>> > > years, that's worth a bunch. >>>> > > >>>> > > -----Original Message----- >>>> > > From: AF <[email protected] >>>> > <mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf Of [email protected] >>>> > <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 5:36 PM >>>> > > To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? >>>> > > >>>> > > Charging time doesn't interest me much in a grid backup >>>> > situation. The >>>> > > cost >>>> > > of the battery per watt hour is normally my only consideration >>>> for a >>>> > > backup >>>> > > battery. >>>> > > >>>> > > -----Original Message----- >>>> > > From: Robert Andrews >>>> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 4:25 PM >>>> > > To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? >>>> > > >>>> > > Nice thing about the lithium Iron is any charger that is >>>> programmable >>>> > > will work. And the faster you can charge them the better. >>>> You >>>> > think >>>> > > flooded times of 2-4 hours and with a big charger the lithium >>>> > banks can >>>> > > charge at 100amps and 1 hour. >>>> > > >>>> > > On 02/12/2020 02:06 PM, [email protected] <mailto: >>>> [email protected]> >>>> > wrote: >>>> > >> 21 cents per watt hour. That is not competitive with flooded >>>> cells. >>>> > >> And what kind of special charger would you have to have? >>>> > >> *From:* Peter Kranz via AF >>>> > >> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 11, 2020 5:36 PM >>>> > >> *To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> > >> *Cc:* Peter Kranz >>>> > >> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? >>>> > >> >>>> > >> Anyone successfully built a telecom UPS solution using rack >>>> mount >>>> > >> LiFePO4 batteries sourced from china? >>>> > >> >>>> > >> There seems to be endless arrays of rack mount solutions >>>> there: >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >>>> https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/48v-100ah-200ah-lithium-ion-bat >>>> > >> >>>> tery_60844575234.html?spm=a2700.details.pronpeci14.6.7e40675elEWkcL >>>> > >> >>>> > >> Prices run about 25% the cost of locally sourced LiFePO4 >>>> solutions. >>>> > >> The selection is crazy however, and who knows what the >>>> gotchas are. >>>> > >> >>>> > >> *Peter Kranz >>>> > >> *www.UnwiredLtd.com <http://www.UnwiredLtd.com> >>>> > <http://www.unwiredltd.com/> >>>> > >> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100 >>>> > >> Mobile: 510-207-0000 >>>> > >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> > >> -- >>>> > >> -- >>>> > >> AF mailing list >>>> > >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> > >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > > -- >>>> > > AF mailing list >>>> > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > AF mailing list >>>> > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > AF mailing list >>>> > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>> -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
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