My bare pcb provider got the go ahead to restart production Monday. Sent from my iPhone
> On Feb 19, 2020, at 7:54 PM, TJ Trout <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Shit, the other thing is when will China be a viable supplier again? Anyone > seeing shipments from China? We use 3 chinese suppliers and they are MIA, > wondering when things will become normal again? > >> On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 5:57 PM Peter Kranz <[email protected]> wrote: >> Correct.. >> https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Lifepo4-Batterie-Lithium-48V-Lifepo4-Lipo_62343352866.html?spm=a2700.details.deiletai6.9.61a95ffebuB5z3 >> >> >> >> Peter Kranz >> www.UnwiredLtd.com >> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100 >> Mobile: 510-207-0000 >> [email protected] >> >> >> >> From: TJ Trout <[email protected]> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:36 PM >> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]> >> Cc: Peter Kranz <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? >> >> >> >> Peter, so just over 1k$ for 100ah@48vdc? >> >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 5:08 PM Peter Kranz via AF <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Second calc is wrong: >> >> >> >> The equivalent LiFePO4 new unit: >> >> >> >> 1x MeritSun LFP100-48 Units = $1100 (138 lbs) >> >> @100% DOD = 4800Wh of storage in a package 16”deep and 8.7” high or $.22/Wh >> >> >> >> So its actually half the price of my Deka solution per Wh. >> >> >> >> Peter Kranz >> www.UnwiredLtd.com >> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100 >> Mobile: 510-207-0000 >> [email protected] >> >> >> >> From: AF <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Peter Kranz via AF >> Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 2:28 PM >> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' <[email protected]> >> Cc: Peter Kranz <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? >> >> >> >> Chuck, something you may want to consider in your calculations is that I am >> comfortable taking LiFePO4 batteries to 100% DOD, whereas I never go below >> 50% DOD for my AGM backup systems. I guess one could make a case that I’m >> not cycling my AGM systems very much, so I shouldn’t care about the huge >> cycle life penalties of 100% DOD in which case your spreadsheet is still >> valid. >> >> >> >> But assuming we go with the 50% DOD argument, I can fit 4x170Ah AGMs in the >> bottom of my racks: >> >> >> >> 4x Deka 170Ah 12AVR1700-ET @ $495 = $1980 (120 lbs x 4 = 480 lbs) >> >> @50% DOD = 4080Wh of storage in a package 22” deep and 12.6” high or $.48/Wh >> >> >> >> The equivalent LiFePO4 new unit: >> >> >> >> 1x MeritSun LFP100-48 Units = $2200 (138 lbs) >> >> @100% DOD = 4800Wh of storage in a package 16”deep and 8.7” high or $.45/Wh >> >> >> >> So, my conclusion so far is if you are buying relatively expensive telecom >> rated AGM batteries and only going to 50% DOD with them, you may be breaking >> even with LiFEPO4 based systems. >> >> >> >> Peter Kranz >> www.UnwiredLtd.com >> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100 >> Mobile: 510-207-0000 >> [email protected] >> >> >> >> From: AF <[email protected]> On Behalf Of [email protected] >> Sent: Friday, February 14, 2020 10:33 AM >> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? >> >> >> >> I repost the list. >> >> >> >> You can get a front post telecom batt for 16 cents per watt hour. But yeah, >> 20 cents is more like it. >> >> If solar flooded cells are OK, those can be had in the 7 cent range. >> >> >> >> From: TJ Trout >> >> Sent: Friday, February 14, 2020 11:20 AM >> >> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? >> >> >> >> I don't know what you guys are smoking :) but SLA/VRLA batteries are $200+ >> kh/w unless we are talking walmart boat batteries which are ~$100kw/h, I >> just posted two sites with li-ion batteries with many options for 70-100$ >> per kw/h ?? >> >> >> >> On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 8:46 AM Robert <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> I think you nailed it. And until commercial Li batteries reduce price by >> 1/2 or more they aren't competitive except in special use cases. (RV and >> such)... with 1/2 price drop and 2x the performance it's effectively a 4x >> difference in requirements and then they equal the utility of wet deep >> cycle. They really need to be less than 1/2 the price to be a no-brainer... >> >> On 2/14/20 8:03 AM, Mathew Howard wrote: >> >> As I see it, for backup or solar applications, all that really matters is >> $/kWH, lifespan, and temperature tolerance (and that generally doesn't even >> matter if they're not outside). Are there any realistic advantages from >> lithiums other than size/weight? That's obviously important for a cell phone >> or an electric car, but it's pretty much irrelevant for what we're talking >> about doing. >> >> >> >> On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 9:18 AM Chuck McCown <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> I only care about $/kWH >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> >> On Feb 13, 2020, at 5:05 PM, TJ Trout <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> Chuck, if you are after high kw/h and don't mind low density, the Leaf packs >> are really awesome, the modules are basically made to be modularly packed, >> you can use all-thread. Several off the shelf PCB's available to make them >> into 8s, 16s packs with all of the cell voltages already pinned out, >> basically a diy kit is available to make them into packs and they are sub >> $100/kwh >> >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 1:05 PM TJ Trout <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> all of the batteries batteryhookup.com and bigbattery.com are _used_ or new >> old stock, nothing new. >> >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 1:02 PM TJ Trout <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> you get what you pay for, all of these guys guarantee the models to >> discharge to the specs they provide or money back >> >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 11:17 AM Robert <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> You should be aware, that bigbattery.com is selling _used_ batteries. For >> example the 24v "powerwall" 3KWh unit for $699 is a used unit per Will >> Prowse. His testing showed 67% degradation from new. What the cycle life >> of a 67% depleted battery array is unknown.. >> >> On 2/13/20 10:54 AM, [email protected] wrote: >> >> Hoboy does she have some nice batteries... >> >> >> >> From: Brian Webster >> >> Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2020 11:49 AM >> >> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' >> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? >> >> >> >> Same here…… >> >> >> >> Thank you, >> >> Brian Webster >> >> www.wirelessmapping.com >> >> >> >> From: AF [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard >> Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2020 12:41 PM >> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? >> >> >> >> I'm afraid to click on that link... >> >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 10:50 AM TJ Trout <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Also bigbattery.com is another good source >> >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 13, 2020, 8:46 AM Steve Jones <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> some guy named ron is coming over to charge my batteries now >> >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 10:20 AM Brian Webster <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> To make sure you get the proper connectors, why else? >> >> >> >> Thank you, >> >> Brian Webster >> >> www.wirelessmapping.com >> >> >> >> From: AF [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown >> Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2020 10:42 AM >> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? >> >> >> >> I wonder why they want to know my gender? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> >> On Feb 13, 2020, at 3:22 AM, TJ Trout <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> Battery hookup.com has the modules, don't buy them all guys. They say Daly >> BMS works good. Make sure you get a bms with low temp and low voltage >> disconnect. >> >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 12, 2020, 6:26 PM <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Do tell. Where do you get the batts? What BMS are you using? >> >> Do you want to resell? I would volunteer to be logistics and fulfillment if >> you want. >> >> >> >> From: TJ Trout >> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 7:19 PM >> >> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? >> >> >> >> Guys, every chemistry of lithium battery (lifepo4, li-ion, lto, etc) are >> available in 1 to 10 KW modules at less than $100 a kilowatt hour most of >> them test between 70 to 99% of the rated capacity mostly removed from >> electric vehicles anyways we repurpose them into storage for our equipment >> you just need a 48 volt BMS to balance the cells and provide low temperature >> and low voltage protection. >> >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 12, 2020, 5:50 PM Robert <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> They have three problems.. 1) Cost.. Yeah they break the bank. 2) low >> voltage compared to other chemistries, which means _more_ cost 3) poor >> efficiency.. You put in 100 watts, you only get 80 watts out. All of this >> is from listening to Will Prowse.. He has an excellent set of tubes on >> them... >> >> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoj6RxIAQq8kmJme-5dnN0Q >> >> On 2/12/20 5:33 PM, Steve Jones wrote: >> >> these they say are good for subzero charging, thats what appeals to me and >> that the subzero doesnt affect discharge rate >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 6:39 PM Robert Andrews <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> Lithiums degrade with temps over 130 degrees F ( depending upon >> chemistry and if you attempt to charge them below freezing. Failure can >> result from trying to charge below freezing. Between those extremes >> they do pretty well. The below freezing is a deal breaker for outside >> solar. There are manufacturers ( BattleBorn + others ) that are coming >> out with heaters to get around that. >> >> On 02/12/2020 04:21 PM, Mathew Howard wrote: >> > I'm wondering how well lithiums hold up compared to flooded cells in a >> > non-environmentally controlled area. I suspect it's worse. >> > >> > On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 6:20 PM <[email protected] >> > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> > >> > In my 42+ years of dealing with stationary flooded cells is that you >> > can >> > easily get 20+ years from them if they are properly maintained and >> > kept in >> > an environmentally controlled area. >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Bill Prince >> > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 5:04 PM >> > To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? >> > >> > I think you would expect at least 2-3 times the life with lithium >> > (almost all the various chemistries currently in vogue). You can also >> > increase discharge tolerance to 80-90 percent instead of the usual >> > lead-acid 50% (or thereabouts). >> > >> > I think the cost is still a bit over the top. Maybe another year or two >> > depending. >> > >> > >> > bp >> > <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >> > >> > On 2/12/2020 3:47 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: >> > > Life also matters. >> > > >> > > Half the cost but has to be replaced in half the time would not >> > be a good >> > > deal. With my luck, if batteries die after 3 years, I'll have a >> > big power >> > > outage every 37 months. And it's not just a cost calculation. >> > Lugging >> > > half >> > > a ton of new batteries out to a tower and then hauling the old >> > ones back >> > > for >> > > recycling sucks. So if someone has battery technology that lasts >> > 10 or 20 >> > > years, that's worth a bunch. >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: AF <[email protected] >> > <mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf Of [email protected] >> > <mailto:[email protected]> >> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 5:36 PM >> > > To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? >> > > >> > > Charging time doesn't interest me much in a grid backup >> > situation. The >> > > cost >> > > of the battery per watt hour is normally my only consideration for a >> > > backup >> > > battery. >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: Robert Andrews >> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 4:25 PM >> > > To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? >> > > >> > > Nice thing about the lithium Iron is any charger that is >> > programmable >> > > will work. And the faster you can charge them the better. You >> > think >> > > flooded times of 2-4 hours and with a big charger the lithium >> > banks can >> > > charge at 100amps and 1 hour. >> > > >> > > On 02/12/2020 02:06 PM, [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> > wrote: >> > >> 21 cents per watt hour. That is not competitive with flooded >> > cells. >> > >> And what kind of special charger would you have to have? >> > >> *From:* Peter Kranz via AF >> > >> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 11, 2020 5:36 PM >> > >> *To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> > >> *Cc:* Peter Kranz >> > >> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? >> > >> >> > >> Anyone successfully built a telecom UPS solution using rack mount >> > >> LiFePO4 batteries sourced from china? >> > >> >> > >> There seems to be endless arrays of rack mount solutions there: >> > >> >> > >> >> > https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/48v-100ah-200ah-lithium-ion-bat >> > >> tery_60844575234.html?spm=a2700.details.pronpeci14.6.7e40675elEWkcL >> > >> >> > >> Prices run about 25% the cost of locally sourced LiFePO4 solutions. >> > >> The selection is crazy however, and who knows what the gotchas are. >> > >> >> > >> *Peter Kranz >> > >> *www.UnwiredLtd.com <http://www.UnwiredLtd.com> >> > <http://www.unwiredltd.com/> >> > >> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100 >> > >> Mobile: 510-207-0000 >> > >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> > >> >> > >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> -- >> > >> -- >> > >> AF mailing list >> > >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> > >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > >> >> > >> >> > > -- >> > > AF mailing list >> > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > > >> > > >> > >> > -- >> > AF mailing list >> > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > >> > >> > -- >> > AF mailing list >> > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > >> > >> > >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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