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On Mon, Apr 13, 2020, 3:30 PM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote: > For a house, yes I would install the gas ones. > > > > Way back around 1965-1967 my family lived in Buenos Aires and the house we > rented had the gas ones on the wall in each room that needed hot water. > Pretty neat, you’d turn on the faucet and instantly the gas flame would > come on, and you’d have not water in seconds. Whereas in my current house > with water heaters in the basement it takes way longer than that, plus > you’re wasting water, and also gas or electricity keeping that 50 gallon > tank of water hot all the time. > > > > But running a gas line and a vent for a gas water heater seems like too > much work for just a hand washing station in the shop. > > > > > > *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Lewis Bergman > *Sent:* Monday, April 13, 2020 3:48 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: More on COVID > > > > My plumber says the large electric tankless aren't worth having. I have 2 > gas units in series at my house. They work together to sense demand and > fire up when needed. We have the little tankless ones (3) at my shop and > they work well. > > > > On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 3:46 PM <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > > On the smaller units, if you want hotter water your turn down the flow. > > > > *From:* Colin Stanners > > *Sent:* Monday, April 13, 2020 2:27 PM > > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: More on COVID > > > > I was looking into tankless water heaters for some personal projects... > electricity really doesn't get you much heat compared to gas options. At > standard faucet flow rate (2GPM) the below would have a temperature rise of > ~15-20 degrees F. Real heat requirements are more in the range of 240V 60A+. > > > > On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 2:37 PM <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > > 120 volts 30 amps $153 > > Only needs 10 gauge wire. > > > https://www.zoro.com/bosch-electric-tankless-water-heater-110120v-us3/i/G2958252/#specifications > > > > You can do it Steve. > > > > > > > > *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com > > *Sent:* Monday, April 13, 2020 1:35 PM > > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: More on COVID > > > > I put one in on bathroom sink at a central office once that was the > smallest one I have ever seen. 240 volts 15 amps. > > > https://www.zoro.com/bosch-electric-tankless-water-heater-208240v-us9/i/G2203381/ > $145 40 amps. > > > > *From:* Ken Hohhof > > *Sent:* Monday, April 13, 2020 1:24 PM > > *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: More on COVID > > > > Home Depot lists Rheem units under $300 but requires a pretty hefty > circuit. I see some smaller ones at Zoro that would probably still be > adequate for a single sink. > > > > *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com > *Sent:* Monday, April 13, 2020 2:18 PM > *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' <af@af.afmug.com> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: More on COVID > > > > They are cheap and easy. The electric ones. > > > > *From:* Ken Hohhof > > *Sent:* Monday, April 13, 2020 12:59 PM > > *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: More on COVID > > > > When this is all over, maybe consider a point-of-use on-demand hot water > heater for the garage sink. The rest of the world has used them forever, > not sure why they have only recently become popular here. Even just for > washing the bird poop off reclaimed radios, a little hot water helps. > > > > For washing hands, I don’t think hot water is mandatory. I like the > foaming hand soaps in the pump bottles, if the only water was cold, I’d > still wash my hands. > > > > *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones > *Sent:* Monday, April 13, 2020 1:32 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: More on COVID > > > > Thats what I mean by lysol stocked, it will be sprayed down. Recovered > equipment will be placed in quarantine. > > > > I dont even know if we can legally shut down the bathroom, but the purpose > is to get the guys in and then out the door, poop at home, come to work, > grab gear, grab van and go. > > > > We dont have hot water, so wash station is about pointless, but they can > wash in the sink basin in the garage though. (we dont have hot water > because there is so little use and our facility is so large the old > plumbing will destroy a standard hot water heater in short time.Its a > constant battle keeping the urinal valve cleared. we do have a bathroom > with hot water near the living quarters, but it requires traversing the > whole place) > > > > On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 1:20 PM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote: > > No bathroom seems cruel, it’s not like you can stop and use the bathroom > at a fast food place anymore. > > > > Do you have a sink in the garage area for washing hands, with soap and > paper towels? I still view handwashing as my #1 protection against > contracting or spreading the virus. I guess liberal use of alcohol based > hand sanitizer would be the backup plan. > > > > I know the bathroom sounds like a risk for contamination, but I’m not sure > that’s true. Wash your hands before and after, use paper towels, and the > sink and toilet can be sanitized pretty easily with some Clorox spray > cleaner. Getting spread by clothes seems a very low probability scenario. > Before I worried about that, I’d be wiping equipment down with disinfecting > wipes before leaving them for the tech or getting them back, since those > are hard surfaces touched with your hands. > > > > > > *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones > *Sent:* Monday, April 13, 2020 1:01 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: More on COVID > > > > So got an update > > Anybody curious, this is for Illinois. > > IDPH hotline 18008893931 > > option 4 I was in contact with a positive case but have no symptoms > > Continue normal activity if contact was not within 6 feet for more than a > few minutes > > > > If there are no symptoms and there was not contact within 6 feet for more > than a few minutes an employer CANNOT facilitate an asymptomatic test > > > > > > The followup on the customer, Im not so mad now. He works in a office > where a lady tested positive, close proximity. So he was an asymptomatic > precautionary test, he met the criteria because he was within 6 feet for > more than a few minutes. This place had another positive last week > supposedly. thankfully they are closed for sanitation. We will be avoiding > people that work there. > > > > Given the issue, we are closing all our communal areas, no coffee pot, not > fridge, no restroom use. Primary installer will operate out of the garage > and only use the garage door, he wont enter the work area. hes set up for > remote now and will be on call when hes not actively on jobs. We would send > the work truck home but he doesnt have a garage and we are already seeing > an increase in vehicular burglary. Owner will stay remote. Other tech will > be remote with his van in his garage. There is a large workbench in the > garage where inventory will be available for resupply. It will be lysol > stocked at night. > > > > Im a dirty bastard so ill be using the primary workspace to do builds and > all that. if im not building or hanging, ill be home. > > > > I will have techs meet me on build sites as required. We will have as > minimal contact as is realistic. If its just 911 guy for tower work, they > wont leave the vehicle. We will go back to me humping stuff up grain legs > and towers for a while if its reasonable weight. > > > > Thank god we dont have to shut stuff down for 2 weeks every time some > pauper approaches us. Techs were given clear instruction that if the > customer comes outside, they are to get back in the work truck and if > customer wont stop approaching, just to leave the site, we will recover > equipment later > > > > > > > > On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 10:39 PM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > > You can pick your friends. > > And you can pick your nose. > > But you can’t pick your friend’s nose. > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Apr 12, 2020, at 8:07 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote: > > > > Up your nose with a rubber hose. > > -Vinny Barbarino > > > > *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince > *Sent:* Sunday, April 12, 2020 8:43 PM > *To:* af@af.afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: More on COVID > > > > Doesn't matter what you touch as long as you wash your hands after any > potential contact. You could stick your finger up an infected person's > nose, and as long as you washed your hands, you are cool. > > I am not advocating that (just in case someone misinterprets what I'm > saying). > > > > bp > > <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> > > > > On 4/12/2020 2:56 PM, Robert wrote: > > Depends upon what he touched on the outside. Anything the customer may > have sneezed/coughed/touched spit even took a deep heavy breath on could > have enough of this nasty if he didn't immediately sanitize after touching > and getting back into his vehicle and spreading it around. Touch his face > with an infected hand/glove and he's on the merry-go-round.. Touch his > truck and someone else touches it.. Less likely but possible. 3-7 DAYS > on metal surfaces is really bad if not sanitized. Door bells are a bad > thing.. Gates are a bad thing.. > > On 4/12/20 2:15 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > > If Steve’s tech really never went inside and came no closer than 10 feet > to anyone, do you think the tech should still quarantine for 14 days? > > > > *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On > Behalf Of *Sean Heskett > *Sent:* Sunday, April 12, 2020 4:04 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com > <af@af.afmug.com> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: More on COVID > > > > This is exactly why our company stopped all in person customer > interactions on March 16th. > > > > Customers lie or don’t know they even have it, then your tech gets > infected along with their whole family, then the rest of your crew. > > > > NO ONE SHOULD BE GOING INTO ANYONE ELSES HOUSE FOR A COUPLE MONTHS. > > > > We are only doing service calls if we can fix it from the outside. > Internet is not worth someone dying over! > > > > -Sean > > > > > > On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 2:17 PM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Im so pissed right now. Tech had a No Line Of Site wednesday. apparently > customer got tested on, positive result today. My guess would be he was > symptomatic wednesday if it was bad enough for a test the next day. I fin > out he was already on quarantine wednesday, im going to probably lose my > stuff. He answered negative to the questionnaire. The tech has been anal > about this since day one. We went no touch last monday officially. he had > no contact closer than 10 feet. Never went inside. sanitizes constantly. > But we have no choice but to go down a tech for 14 day quarantine. We are > closed tomorrow for a video-conference to regroup. Tuesday we will probably > be sanitizing everything. > > there is little to no chance the tech caught it. he is writing down > arrival to exit to help him remember if there is any chance of > contamination. > > We have to try to get the health department to give us clear guidance on > company operations over the next 2 weeks. > > If this guy lied on the questionnaire ...... Ill probably end up in jail. > We have too much going on to be a man down, much less a whole company down. > If he got my installer sick, and lied on the questionnaire, kunkgflu will > not be his primary concern anymore > > > > > > > > On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 2:18 PM Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote: > > You can get around the paywall using the Brave browser. > > > > bp > > <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> > > > > On 4/12/2020 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > > Interesting long article in today’s New York Times Sunday magazine on the > case of James Cai, a physician’s assistant and the first coronavirus case > in New Jersey. > > > > Yeah, yeah, yeah, NYT, biased liberal elite east coast mainstream media > fake news … get over it, this article is not political. I am however > reading the print version and while I Googled for a link to the online > version it might be behind a paywall, or maybe they will let you read a > limited number of articles free, I don’t know. > > > > > https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/05/magazine/first-coronavirus-patient-new-jersey.html > > > > The story leaves you both hopeful and pessimistic. He got some treatments > other than what the hospital wanted to use, but only through extensive > intervention from doctor friends and people who read about him online. He > did recover. Some of the nonstandard treatments may have worked. But you > or I probably wouldn’t have gotten them. You realize how difficult it is > to get something like remdesivir given the approvals needed. And the push > to intubate rather than have you breathe the virus on hospital staff, even > if it’s maybe not the best treatment. And how doctors and hospitals were > slow to realize this disease was different. > > > > > > *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On > Behalf Of *Steve Jones > *Sent:* Saturday, April 11, 2020 10:43 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com > <af@af.afmug.com> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: More on COVID > > > > Because the fda doesnt approve without the trials, to avoid the liability. > It's only approved off label use, hence, zero liability > > > > On Sat, Apr 11, 2020, 10:12 PM Robert <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote: > > There is an actual mechanism for the FDA to avoid the liability, it's > baked into the system now. It's how the friends got the treatment approved > for their daughters. > > On 4/11/20 4:10 PM, Steve Jones wrote: > > The FDA cant take the liability of "approving" anything without full > trials. I dont blame them. > > > > We let everyone sue everyone, we did it to ourselves. > > > > Same reason Fauci uses code words to say the malaria drug works without > saying it works or setting cnn off by agreeing with potus. > > > > On Sat, Apr 11, 2020, 3:27 PM Robert <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote: > > I can't believe I am still hearing about "trials" on the pre-existing > ebola treatment. Doctors are talking about 2/3's of test patients > recovering after 2-3 days after administration. Seems like that would be > a good enough "trial" to start massively treating patients instead of > 20% survival.. What the heck is the real story? I know someone > personally who fought the FDC to get a treatment that extended their > daughters lives for 5 years and it was a nightmare. The conspiracy > part of me wants to scream... > > On 4/11/20 12:50 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > > Yeah, I am starting to get annoyed at the obsession with having enough > ventilators, describing them as "life saving equipment", leaving the > impression that most can be saved if you can just put them on a > ventilator. Yet stats out of NYC are 80% don't survive to come off the > ventilator. And you have to wonder if the 20% who do, did the vent > actually save them, or they would have survived even with less aggressive > treatment. > > > > The news coverage leaves you thinking most of the ICU patients will be > saved if there's enough ventilators. When in reality doctors and nurses > are risking their own lives to treat ICU wards full of intubated, sedated > patients most of whom will die because they don't have an effective > treatment. Not a pretty story, probably why nobody wants to talk about it. > > > > There are trials of various treatments going on, it would be great if > some of them turned out to work. Not necessarily a cure or a vaccine, but > a therapy so less people die. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Bill Prince > > Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2020 1:57 PM > > To: AFMUG <af@af.afmug.com> > > Subject: [AFMUG] OT: More on COVID > > > > > > Saw this in our local paper this morning. It's interesting to me because > it's bringing to light the fact that COVID-19 is apparently not what people > are dying from, it's the secondary ARDS-like (Accute Respiratory Distress > Syndrome) condition. There is also some debate within the medical community > whether ventilators are helping or hurting. Maybe what they need to do is > just supply oxygen. > > > > If this link doesn't work for you, I can email the article. > > > > > https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/04/11/when-coronavirus-kills-its-like-death-by-drowning-and-doctors-disagree-on-best-treatment/ > > > > > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > ------------------------------ > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > ------------------------------ > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > ------------------------------ > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > > -- > > Lewis Bergman > > 325-439-0533 Cell > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
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