Re: [AFMUG] YouTuber dismantles the SpaceX Starlink 'Dishy McFlatface' Antenna! [V

Thu, 17 Dec 2020 13:10:11 -0800

or maybe SpaceX will borrow some ideas from Amazon?

I don't even pretend to understand antenna theory.

bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
On 12/17/2020 1:06 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Or maybe Amazon has a smaller (hence cheaper) dish.  Musk will have the Tesla of dishes.  Bezos will have the Firestick of dishes.  Given that we suspect the SpaceX dish may actually cost thousands to make, cheaper might be better.  Well, depending on how much SpaceX bid per location in the RDOF reverse auction.

 

 

From: AF <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 2:59 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] YouTuber dismantles the SpaceX Starlink 'Dishy McFlatface' Antenna! [V

 

Maybe Amazon has a better dishy? If only they had some birds in the air. So far that's Starlink 900, Kuiper 0.

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2020/12/amazons-answer-to-spacex-starlink-delivers-400mbps-in-prototype-phase/

 

bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 11/29/2020 12:57 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Wait, 632 little chips and 79 BGAs, plus at 10-14 GHz it would be an expensive PCB per your previous post.

 

So if the little chips were 50 cents each and the BGAs $5 each, that alone would be $700.  I’m just pulling those numbers out of the air, but it doesn’t sound like you could build it for $100.  More like $1000.

 

 

From: AF <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 2:49 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]>
Cc: Chuck McCown <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] YouTuber dismantles the SpaceX Starlink 'Dishy McFlatface' Antenna! [V

 

Better info.  2 patches per sub array, not 4.

 

The latest consumer product: Ku-band phased array user terminal for the Starlink Low Earth Orbit Internet system. The PCB is about 50 cm in diameter. Transmits LHCP at 14.0-14.5 GHz, with a power level between 0.7..4 W, receives RHCP in 10.7..12.7 GHz range.

There are several types of custom ST chips on the board:

The most numerous are 632 (!) small 16 pin chips, each of which is connected to two patch antenna elements of the array.

There are 79 of much larger BGA chips, covered with metal tape and having blue heat conductive material connecting them to the aluminum heat spreader covering the board. Each of these chips is connected to the 8 small chips around it. (The architecture of the array is not known at this time. One possible solution is programmable time delay entirely through DSP.)

A notable chip is the main system-on-a-chip IC in the right top corner, which would have to be the modem / system controller -- something along the lines of STiD337, but faster and with the additional array control functionality.

Another chip next to the modem has not been covered in the tear-down, and seems to have additional shielding around it. Possibly the PLL?

The chip in the center of the array, as everybody agrees, must be related to clock distribution.

Lots of other, presumably off-the-shelf components -- GPS receiver, MEMS IMU, memories, power converters, interface.

 

Sent from my iPhone




On Nov 29, 2020, at 1:43 PM, Chuck McCown via AF <[email protected]> wrote:

About 2000 is my estimate.

Sent from my iPhone




On Nov 29, 2020, at 1:28 PM, Bill Prince <[email protected]> wrote:



The whole array looks to be one PCB ~~ 20" in diameter. A lot of silicon parts, but there appears to also be a lot of repeat parts. How many patches? Hundreds?

 

bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 11/29/2020 12:24 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

This actually excites me for our industry. Everybody is all up in arms that theyll take our customers. Someone is always trying to take our customers.

What excites me is the tracking capability. Autoalignment is expensive tech, out of our price range. But with starlink ultimately going to have to scale production to cost, I see technology leases happening and the price coming way down, low enough to be viable for our market, at least our higher end gear.

I dont know the tolerances in the alignment on these, may be loose since it hits an array, but it's still got to be fairly tight to be able to maintain aggregate system capacity.

Can you imagine, using something like cnheat to ID the best install spot, and send the tech out to just mount and it auto aligns, or to go self install. 

Realignment truck rolls, gone. If the aligner could turn enough, you could even move customers to new sites remotely.

I'd bet the assemblies would get into the 20 to 50 dollar range on the SM costs. Power demand would be the killer though

 

On Sun, Nov 29, 2020, 1:28 PM Darin Steffl <[email protected]> wrote:

Most guesses are upwards of $2,500 to manufacturer. Phased array antennas are very expensive and before they put a lot of effort into reducing cost, most said minimum $10k for this type of antenna.

 

 

 

On Sun, Nov 29, 2020, 12:36 PM Chuck McCown via AF <[email protected]> wrote:

That antenna array alone is probably costing them $20 and another $20 of chips on it.  I am guessing it is north of $100 to make. 

 

From: Ken Hohhof

Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 11:28 AM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] YouTuber dismantles the SpaceX Starlink 'Dishy McFlatface' Antenna! [V

 

What do you estimate it would cost them to manufacture in large quantities?  People are probably assuming it’s a $10 item at some point, but it looks expensive to me, even at scale.

 

From: AF <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 11:49 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] YouTuber dismantles the SpaceX Starlink 'Dishy McFlatface' Antenna! [V

 

Clever motor assembly.   Be fun to use that same mechanism for a solar panel.  I may have to give that a try. 

So, it does steer mechanically.  Almost has to to maximize the gain. 

 

Looks like roughly 2000 patches. 

Looks like roughly 500 chips feeding them.  So a 4 patch array fed by a T/R-LNA - power amp.  4-6 of those clusters fed into a larger chip that probably does the phasing for steering.

 

So the antenna is just a whole lot of simple in a very massive scale. 

 

 

 

From: Jaime Solorza

Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 8:24 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

Subject: [AFMUG] YouTuber dismantles the SpaceX Starlink 'Dishy McFlatface' Antenna! [V

 

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