How long is LTS on Ubuntu compared to what Centos was? I think LTS is
5 years vs 10 years with Centos?
On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 8:04 PM Steve Jones <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I just rebuilt our librenms server on ubuntu. It doesnt seem bad,
lots of google answers. Webmin looks cool, dont knownifnits the
new webmin or because it's on ubuntu. I dont care for the weird
adapter naming and this yaml thing for configuring them. Commands
arent that different.
Not sure if theres a way to enable root user or not.
I like that a lot of google advice is nano centric and not vi, I
never could figure out vi
On Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 7:11 PM Ken Hohhof <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Cool. I hope they change the name though.
This is reminding me of Mickey Mouse as the Sorcerer’s
Apprentice in Fantasia, when he tries to stop the broom with
an ax, only to have the splinters turn into a multitude of brooms.
*From:* AF <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
*Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2020 6:23 PM
*To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
More options:
https://www.zdnet.com/article/cloudlinux-to-invest-more-than-a-million-dollar-a-year-into-centos-clone/
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/cloudlinux-to-invest-more-than-a-million-dollar-a-year-into-centos-clone/>
bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
On 12/13/2020 12:42 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
RHEL pricing is highly dependent on volume. Nobody
typically pays advertised pricing. But, it's still not
cheap, especially at scale. You can buy per instance (or
guest) or license an entire hypervisor for unlimited
instances of RHEL.
Your subscription basically allows you to access their
repository of updates (think yum/dnf update), knowledge
base, and ability to open cases (with some levels of
subscription).
On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 2:47 PM Ken Hohhof
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Just to cover all the bases, what does it cost to use
RHEL? I find their web page a little confusing. Is it
$350 or $800? And that’s per server per year, right?
Does it turn into a pumpkin if you don’t renew the
license every year? That seems pretty expensive
especially if you don’t need support and are basically
just getting a distribution and repositories for open
source software.
Actually I’m still a little confused about their
pricing. The $350 version says no VMs and not
intended for production use. Does that mean you are
violating the terms of the license if you use it in
production, or just their way of saying you can’t open
support tickets? And are there add-ons that would be
cost yet more for a basic server application?
For the first few years I actually used RHEL, I forget
if I had to pay upfront or every year. That just does
not sound feasible.
*From:* AF <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> *On Behalf Of *Lincs
Chel
*Sent:* Sunday, December 13, 2020 1:27 PM
*To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
Hi Josh;
OK. Thanks for expanding your thoughts and info on
the Oracle Linux distro and Oracle. It allows one to
appreciate the context. This will certainly educate
and assist an inexperienced Linux user who is
information gathering to make some sound judgements
about the CentOS and Oracle Linux distros and where to go.
Yeah, I concur with your view that the majority of
users that is currently using the free CentOS distro,
is most likely going to be seeking the same in any
alternative they elect to use as a replacement for
CentOS. Also Oracle's past history on acquisitions
and Open Source projects certainly makes one really
think hard about going into their camp; Java, MySQL,
ZFS etc. comes to mind.
Most of the Linux training I have come across so far
also seems to use CentOS as a start. So this will be
interesting as well.
Lincoln
On 13/12/2020 10:02 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
Lincs,
One could also say that Stream is also a "direct
binary replacement" for CentOS. In fact, to
switch a CentOS system to Steam, all you need to
do is modify your repo definitions.
You are correct, OL isn't meant to be only used
for Oracle software and appliances, but it usually
is. I didn't mean to insinuate otherwise. You
will very rarely find a shop running OL just
because they want to.
Bottom line - Oracle is a monster that I don't
want to get in bed with. I was in the enterprise
sector for many years and saw first hand how
terrible Oracle's products and software really
is. I have watched companies spend *millions* of
dollars on Oracle products that are barely
functional and could have been replaced with other
working solutions at a fraction of the cost.
Nothing you say will convince me otherwise :) To
each his own, though!
Ultimately, I don't believe the majority of CentOS
users will want to pay for RHEL/OL. They will just
switch to Steam/Rocky/etc or make the move to
Debian (which can be a massive undertaking in
itself depending on how much time/effort/money you
have invested in tooling, etc for EL based distros).
Cheers,
Josh
On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 8:44 AM Lincs Chel
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi Josh;
An interesting 'emotional' response to the
CentOS dilemma . It seems to miss the
objective of finding an immediate, short-term
and/or possible long-term solution for a
CentOS replacement for the community. If you
look at the Oracle Linux information, it is a
direct binary replacement for CentOS right out
of the box; usable right-away. Nor does it
appear to be just an appliance based product
and only meant for Oracle software. That
would be a misleading characterization of
their product and to an inexperienced Linux
end-user. It's almost suggesting to a person,
that you can't run other software on top of
Microsoft Windows unless it came from
Microsoft itself, or iOS, unless it's from
Apple and so on. It does however appear that
they (Oracle) are suggesting that you will get
a really great experience with their software
running on top of Oracle Linux rather than
RedHat's version or CentOS or some other Linux
distro. I also think Oracle Linux is being
positioned for the cloud based network in
which all of the big-ones wants to compete
head-to-head. Oracle Linux gives Oracle sort
of control as to an OS you can readily and
easily pick when on their cloud platform that
is based on a well known Open Source Linux.
Makes sense for them to keep it going. I
suspect IBM is positioning itself like that as
well. They now have RedHat on their cloud
platform and control its direction. They're
all aiming for AWS and Microsoft (which has
Azure and Windows).
Oracle Linux code and/or OS runs without any
contortions for the end-user, both experienced
and inexperienced Linux users can benefit from
this. Essentially one can basically continue
running a CentOS environment right now if they
wish and/or choose to do so using the Oracle
Linux software. And, more importantly without
any subscription fees, i.e. for free. I think
their subscription pricing looks very
reasonable as well for what its worth
especially if you're rookie and on a budget.
Nothing like hand holding from a single
source, than Googling the entire net and
wading through tons of blogs and different
ideas when you're stuck.
Yes, Oracle doesn't appear to always play well
with the Open Source community products. But
that can be perception. But I would say most
of the big companies who use and/or own Open
Source software as their business, don't do
things the free and Open Source users like all
the time. All trying to protect their turf,
products and revenue.
Oracle can be seen as the 'evil' one, don't
trust them with a 10-ft pole. Likewise
Microsoft, RedHat, IBM, Amazon, Google, Apple
and all those crazy new free-software
licensing terms and models software companies.
CloudLinux is also an option for a direct
replacement. But this appears to be only by
subscription only for right now. When I had
last checked on it, it was not free and
required a subscription that didn't appear
inexpensive. But more expensive for someone
that is usually accustomed to paying $0.00 for
their server software.
Lincoln
On 13/12/2020 12:16 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
Sorry, but nobody in their right mind runs
Oracle Linux unless you're using Oracle
software and appliances that require you
to run OL for support.
On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 10:22 PM Lincs
Chel <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi;
I think another option to consider
would be Oracle Linux. Consider the
following from their blog, news and
website:-
* If you are reading this blog,
you are probably a CentOS user
and are in the position where
you need to look at
alternatives going forward.
Switching to Oracle Linux is easy.
o
https://blogs.oracle.com/linux/need-a-stable%2c-rhel-compatible-alternative-to-centos-three-reasons-to-consider-oracle-linux
<https://blogs.oracle.com/linux/need-a-stable%2c-rhel-compatible-alternative-to-centos-three-reasons-to-consider-oracle-linux>
* Need a stable, RHEL compatible
alternative to CentOS?
o https://www.oracle.com/linux/
<https://www.oracle.com/linux/>
Another option if you're using cPanel
& WHM is to most likely use them as a
good guide:-
* cPanel Support For CentOS 8 And More
o
https://blog.cpanel.com/centos-8-end-of-life-announcement/
<https://blog.cpanel.com/centos-8-end-of-life-announcement/>
And, if you're coming from the old
Cobalt Networks RaQ server era days
and/or BlueOnyx, they have a good
blog, news & comments. Probably their
posture may be the best position to
take when looking and/or want to
"marry" with a particular distro which
had various roadmaps during their history.
* BlueOnyx has been available on
CentOS since CentOS 5, but as
the CentOS project never was
without issues and
unpredictability. Therefore
we've never been fully
"married" to it. It's always
been more of a matter of
convenience than one of
choice. We even departed
briefly from CentOS during the
CentOS 6 days and favored
Scientific Linux 6 instead.
Since then we kept our eyes
and ears open for alternatives
and also contemplated
contingencies.
* You are here: Welcome to BlueOnyx»
News
CentOS Project shifts focus to
CentOS Stream
o
https://www.blueonyx.it/news/280/54/CentOS-Project-shifts-focus-to-CentOS-Stream/d,Simplex%20News%20Detail
<https://www.blueonyx.it/news/280/54/CentOS-Project-shifts-focus-to-CentOS-Stream/d,Simplex%20News%20Detail>
Based on BlueOnyx website news, they
have indicated the original founder of
CentOS is considering a possible return:-
And like mentioned above:
We're not the only ones whom
RedHat pulled the rug out from
under our feet.
In fact Gregory Kurtzer
(co-founder of CentOS) had
this to say
<https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/#comment-183642>:
I am considering creating
another rebuild of RHEL
and may even be able to
hire some people for this
effort. If you are
interested in helping,
please join the HPCng
slack (link on the website
hpcng.org <http://hpcng.org>).
Greg (original founder of
CentOS)
If you've installed and use cnMaestro
and Cambium's software on CentOS, then
the impact may even be more on your
operations. I am guessing Cambium's
cnMaestro may drop support for CentOS
eventually.
Lincoln
On 12/12/2020 11:39 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
Mostly. IBM charges quite a bit
for it, but they're big blue. Not
sure what they're getting out of
their multi-billion dollar
purchase, but we would have to sit
in their board room to understand
their thinking. I wouldn't be
surprised to see that they are
saving money by getting all those
community developers do the work
for next to nothing. Sure cuts
down on the expenses in the
development department.
The only real issue is which
version of linux you want hook
your wagon to. I used Centos for
quite a long time; mainly because
it was "enterprise". Then it go
too "enterprise" for my taste, and
have since switched to Debian.
It's the same, but different. Same
enough for my taste, and
down-homey enough for the small
operation we are.
NBD.
bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
On 12/12/2020 8:14 AM, Chuck
McCown via AF wrote:
Linux... linux is free... right?
*From:*Ken Hohhof
*Sent:*Saturday, December 12,
2020 8:39 AM
*To:*'AnimalFarm Microwave
Users Group'
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Centos
is dead?
I guess it would have been
naïve of us all to expect no
change when IBM acquired RedHat.
*From:*AF
<[email protected]>
<mailto:[email protected]>
*On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Friday, December 11,
2020 11:58 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave
Users Group <[email protected]>
<mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos
is dead?
Holy shit, I just took a
cursory look at redhat
pricing. Starts at 350 a year
per server, physical server
only, and not intended for
production use. 2500 a year
for the data center if I read
it right
I run webmin to manage package
updates and BIND. If I'm
reading correctly ubuntu isnt
terrible, just less security
patched since it's all
opensource and not subsidized
by a big dog like red hat.
Probably doable, but no yum.
Has something like this
happenned with centos
historically? I assume the
linux community will bring
about a comparable solution or
resolution.
This just stinks, I had my
centos process down.
Is this end of life like a
microst end of life where they
just keep patching and saying
they mean it this time for years?
On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 11:28 PM
Ken Hohhof <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Supposedly there will be
CentOS Stream? Kind of
like RHEL beta instead of
RHEL day old bread. I
guess their answer would
be if you are using it in
a production environment
you could always pay for
RHEL. Or there’s Fedora.
I believe Preseem runs on
Fedora.
*From:*AF
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Friday, December
11, 2020 10:19 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave
Users Group
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG]
Centos is dead?
Debian is like Ubuntu
,only better. ;-)
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing
Solutions
<http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
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*From: *"Steve Jones"
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*To: *"AnimalFarm
Microwave Users Group"
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*Sent: *Friday, December
11, 2020 5:12:13 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG]
Centos is dead?
I've been a peasant my
whole life, is there any
other way?
I think powercode is
ubuntu now, so I'll
probably go that route,
are there major
differences to it?
I dont like saying ubuntu,
too much like ubnt
On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 3:47
PM Seth Mattinen
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
On 12/11/20 13:21,
Steve Jones wrote:
> Am I reading all
this right? Redhat
officially killed
centos and its
> tombstoned in 2021?
>
> Everything I run is
centos. It's not like
I know centos but I
have my
> resource sets on
where to go to resolve
anything that pops up.
>
> Is this just a
normal thing in the
linux world where
something is ended
> but actually just
rebrands and keeps
going or is it a legit
end of the OS?
It happens. Someone
will probably fork it
and make up a new
distro if
that hasn't happened
already. IMO the main
reason to use CentOS was
because it was rebuilt
RHEL.
I gave up on Red Hat
about two releases
into Fedora Core when
it became
obvious it was just
rapidly changing
garbage for testing on
the peasants
before bringing fixes
into their commercial
version.
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