"It should be a discussion based upon the scientific merits of the situation." Unfortunately, even scientists are being censored on social media. Real ones with real things to say, not Cletus and his Bill Gates 5G malarkey. A podcast episode with one of the inventors of the mRNA process was taken down because it wasn't 100% in line with CDC\WHO. Same thing has happened with plenty of other discipline-relevant scientists and their social media, podcasts, etc. talking about scientific issues.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Coudron" <[email protected]> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, July 23, 2021 3:11:09 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political I know, we can all make our own decisions. However, I don’t believe I have stated anything that varies from the facts. I can send you the Moderna sheet I received with my vaccine if you want to see that. Your points about FDA approval are probably accurate, however, why is not OK to say that I want to wait for the approval? That doesn’t seem so unreasonable. We don’t let folks on the plane based on the likelihood that those on the no-fly list probably won’t show up to get on the plane anyway. We still check each and every person to make sure. Just like we do the FDA approval process to make sure. Otherwise, we could just tell drug companies “if you are pretty sure you’d pass anyway, we won’t bother putting you through the approval process” We don’t do that for good reason. I agree with you on the memes both ways. Neither approach are helping the situation. It should be a discussion based upon the scientific merits of the situation. Unfortunately both side love to poke at the intelligence of those that don’t agree with their decision. There is no way to know this for sure, but I wonder how many folks publicly shaming others for not taking the vaccine know that it is not FDA approved? Likely won’t change lots of folks decisions, nor am I suggesting it should have. But I don’t think that those of us that decided to go ahead with the vaccination get to make medical decisions for those who aren’t comfortable with an experimental vaccine. From: AF <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Adam Moffett Sent: Friday, July 23, 2021 2:56 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political I'm not calling anybody stupid, but I don't agree with most of your list. On 7/23/2021 3:37 PM, David Coudron wrote: Here is what I find particularly challenging about suggesting that folks who have chosen not to take the vaccine are not that smart. 1. Folks who do that never talk about that fact that this is not an FDA approved medicine/vaccine. I took the Moderna vaccine, the paperwork clearly stated several facts. Among them are: 1. This is not FDA approved. It has an emergency use authorization. FDA approval takes a long time, but around 90% of the submissions end up approved because they are pretty well tested by the manufacturer before they apply. Anybody applying for FDA approval already has a pretty good idea whether it's going to go through or not. Presumably people on a no-fly list don't routinely show up at the airport expecting to board a plane. Presumably people don't try to get a CDL if they know they'll fail the drug test. Same idea. <blockquote> 1. 2. This “vaccine” has not been proven to prevent the virus. While we likely all agree that there is a very good likelihood that this “vaccine” will help prevent it, it is far from a proven fact. </blockquote> 99% of people dying of Covid right now are un-vaccinated. We can split hairs and say maybe it didn't prevent them from becoming infected, but it clearly prevents them from dying. <blockquote> 1. 1. The argument is, “there should be no reason to think this vaccine isn’t safe since people aren’t dying from taking the vaccine”. </blockquote> I've never heard such an argument. <blockquote> 1. Vaccines are a risk/reward type of medical treatment. Every medicine you take has some level of side effect. The vast majority of medicines have such negligible side effects, that they are considered completely safe. The FDA approval process exists to ensure we understand the potential of serious side effects and drug interaction issues. If you are 30 years old and folks are saying you have to take this experimental drug to prevent this incredibly small chance of you becoming seriously ill or dying, it seems like an intelligent thing to say “I am not sure the risk of getting seriously ill or dying from this disease outweighs the risk of using an experimental drug”. It used to be that people relied upon a conversation with their doctor to determine personal risk of disease and use of a drug. Apparently we no longer do that. We publicly shame people into using experimental drugs. </blockquote> <blockquote> 1. Since it is not FDA approved, we don’t have a full understanding of drug interactions with other medicines folks need to take. </blockquote> It isn't some weird new chemical we just invented this year. <blockquote> 1. We likely understand the very common medicines, but, certainly not all. We have FDA approval processes for good reason. If for example, you were under 40 and were taking seizure control medication, it would be very fair to hold off on an experimental drug until it is fully understood if the vaccine might lessen the effectiveness of the seizure control medication. An incredibly low risk of serious illness or death from the virus could turn into a good chance of serious injury from seizure. As far as I know data like that is certainly not available yet. </blockquote> <blockquote> 1. Why do vaccinated people feel the need to belittle those that have decided not to get vaccinated by an experimental drug? </blockquote> I don't know the answer to that. I'm not comfortable with that behavior either. It goes both ways though. Plenty of memes out there accusing people of being dumb sheep for taking the vaccine. -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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