I would love some better antispasmodic drugs for dessert. About 2-3 weeks ago I did my annual periodic insanity and messed up my herniated disks. Normally a week of ibuprofen overdoses ,physical therapy and inversion table it starts to clear up. And it did. So much that I took me street sweeper on a shakedown run. On the trip back to the shop I hit a heat buckle in the freeway and bounced my head off the ceiling. Wow has that really done a number on me. Just getting to where I can walk a little but recovery is much much slower this time. Pain is mostly from spasms now but they will put me on the floor. Qualudes would be welcome. Thing is, once I get better I am bound to do it again. This was initially caused by putting grit in a sand blaster pot. 25 lb bags. Even lifted the pallet with a forklift. Still too much. I hate watching my son work without helping. Does PCP allow you to work without pain? At least I amber a stack of magazines and the Olympics on the TV.
Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 24, 2021, at 11:13 AM, Jan-GAMs <[email protected]> wrote: > > Time for dessert > >> On 7/23/21 5:23 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote: >> Dinner is served. >> >> On Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 6:07 PM Jaime Solorza <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> From liberal hippie me... >> >> On Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 5:38 PM Bill Prince <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> They don't even need to sneeze. They shed virus just by >> breathing. And the point that many (most) anti-vaxxers seem to >> gloss over is that it's not just about them, it's about all >> the innocant people they can give it to while they're infectious. >> >> This is an off topic topic. >> >> >> bp >> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >> >>> On 7/23/2021 4:20 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: >>> AIDS was / Is 100% avoidable. COVID is like someone with AIDS >>> spraying you down with their precious bodily fluids by >>> sneezing. People have been prosecuted for infecting others >>> with AIDS. Why not COVID? If you don’t want the vax, fine >>> but you need a full body condom if you come within 100’ of >>> another person. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Jul 23, 2021, at 4:24 PM, David Coudron >>>> <[email protected]> >>>> <mailto:[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> There are valid reasons for deciding to take this vaccine, >>>> the shingles vaccine, the flu vaccine, or a myriad of other >>>> medications. Each decision should be based on risk/reward >>>> of that drug and the medical condition being treated. To >>>> think that you know everyone’s medical situation better than >>>> they do doesn’t seem very feasible and awfully >>>> presumptive. To call them selfish for making a decision >>>> they believe is in their best medical interest seems overly >>>> judgmental. Yes, there are people are deciding not to take >>>> it simply because they think they shouldn’t be forced to >>>> take a medical treatment against their will. You may feel >>>> that we should force them to take the treatment for the >>>> better good. I doubt you would feel the same about >>>> mandatory castration of young men to curb overcrowding of >>>> the earth. Obviously there is a line somewhere about >>>> forced treatment for the greater good. I am not attempting >>>> to determine where that line is, only suggesting that folks >>>> have valid medical reasons for not deciding to take the >>>> vaccine and they shouldn’t be publicly shamed for making >>>> that decision. It doesn’t seem that far fetched, but I am >>>> learning I see things differently than some other folks. >>>> So be it. >>>> >>>> I love the argument that we have to get vaccinated, but we >>>> still have to act like the vaccine doesn’t work in order to >>>> save the human race. Seems like a disconnect there. >>>> >>>> If we were really so worried about infecting others or >>>> causing harm to others, we would avoid all other activities >>>> that create risk for others. We’d never drive a car, much >>>> less have a beer and get in a car. I doubt that very many >>>> of us on this list can say that. We would never allow the >>>> sale of fatty foods. We would force each and everyone to >>>> get to a body mass within our accepted range. Keep in mind >>>> life is risky. We don’t need to do stupid things, but >>>> being alive carries with it the risk of dying. We are all >>>> much more likely to die of heart disease, stroke related >>>> illness, or cancer than we are of Covid. Those are just >>>> the facts. Many folks make small adjustments to reduce the >>>> risk of those likely causes of mortality, but have long ago >>>> passed on decisions to make big changes to eliminate the >>>> possibility of those causes of death. >>>> >>>> I have long ago decided not to live in constant fear of >>>> these things. While I chose to be vaccinated, I respect the >>>> right of folks to make the best choice for their >>>> situation. I also respect the right of someone who is not >>>> in the best physical condition to eat a steak. I realize >>>> that a drunk driver might kill me some day, but I respect >>>> the right of individuals to go to a bar and expect that most >>>> (but not all) are responsible enough not to drink and drive >>>> when they have had too much. >>>> >>>> Keep in mind that this virus would have never come to our >>>> country if we never allowed anyone in or out of it. But we >>>> understand that certain personal freedoms are worth the >>>> possibility of catching a disease that might kill us. I >>>> have a tough time with the mass hypochondria surrounding >>>> this situation. >>>> >>>> Sorry, I am not meaning to make anyone mad, just trying to >>>> keep perspective. I just don’t understand why folks get >>>> so bent out of shape if they are already vaccinated. I >>>> guess they don’t believe the vaccine will work because if it >>>> does, there is nothing to worry about. >>>> >>>> I wager that given Covid’s relation to influenza like >>>> viruses, that it is with us permanently. We will have >>>> yearly updates to the vaccination, but we’ll never be rid of >>>> it. Not because people aren’t getting vaccinated, but >>>> because it will always mutate ahead of the vaccine, just >>>> like the flu virus. Please don’t take this as an argument >>>> to not work on vaccines, we absolutely should as it will >>>> save lives. But as Carl pointed out below, vaccines aren’t >>>> 100% effective……. 😊 >>>> >>>> I will lay a friendly wager down. Remember, we had a AIDS >>>> epidemic several years ago. Did we force people to stop >>>> having sex or many of the other high risk things that led to >>>> AIDS? Does anyone even talk about AIDS anymore? 32 >>>> million people died of AIDS and people still die from it. No >>>> one talks about it any more. Covid will be the same way in >>>> 10 years. That is my bet. >>>> >>>> Again, lots of stuff to poke holes in here I am sure. My >>>> only original point was that there are valid reasons folks >>>> chose not to get vaccinated. We can’t and shouldn’t know >>>> what they are, but should respect their right to chose. >>>> >>>> *From:* AF <[email protected]> >>>> <mailto:[email protected]> *On Behalf Of * Carl Peterson >>>> *Sent:* Friday, July3, 2021 4:30 PM >>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]> >>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political >>>> >>>> No vaccination is 100% effective. From a public policy >>>> perspective, you need to pull on the levers that work in >>>> order to get R0 to be less than 1. We know that a good >>>> percentage of people will follow a mask mandate. Even if >>>> most of that group is vaccinated that lever will still do >>>> something since no vaccine is 100% effective and some number >>>> of that population is walking around as symptom-free >>>> carriers at any given time. >>>> >>>> Getting most people vaccinated would be the best way to >>>> lower R0, but if someone is too self centered to care about >>>> their neighbors or their country there isn't much you can do >>>> to make them care. That lever isn't doing much these days. >>>> The issue here really is about what is best for society vs >>>> what an individual thinks is best for themselves. An >>>> individual's personal risk of having serious Covid >>>> complications is pretty low so if they believe there is some >>>> risk to the vaccine and don't account for externalities, >>>> e.g. them infecting other people, then it's hard to convince >>>> them to get vaccinated. >>>> >>>> On Fri, Jul 23, 2021 at 4:05 PM Dennis Burgess >>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Why does someone who has made an informed choice not to >>>> get vaxxed by a NON-FDA approved drug have not sit out >>>> in timeout? This is a free society, if you are so >>>> scared, you stay home. I will take my chances. >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> *<image001.png>* >>>> >>>> *Dennis Burgess* >>>> >>>> * >>>> *Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition” >>>> >>>> *Link Technologies, Inc*-- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services >>>> >>>> *Office*: 314-735-0270 Website: >>>> http://www.linktechs.net <http://www.linktechs.net/> >>>> >>>> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com >>>> <http://www.towercoverage.com> >>>> >>>> Need MikroTik Cloud Management: >>>> https://cloud.linktechs.net <https://cloud.linktechs.net> >>>> >>>> *From:* AF <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs >>>> *Sent:* Friday, July 23, 2021 3:32 PM >>>> *To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political >>>> >>>> There is no having a sane discussion on this topic. >>>> This is more like a whining child having an open >>>> temper-tantrum in public. Un-vaxxed persons are a health >>>> hazard and attempting to explain this to a child is a >>>> bit difficult. Those who don't have a vaccine should not >>>> be allowed in public. Every time a non-vaxxed person >>>> gets sick with Covid there is the potential for a new >>>> variant even worse than the Delta variant. Un-vaxxed >>>> persons should be quarrantined as they are a >>>> health-hazard to everyone around them and to the public >>>> at large. >>>> >>>> On 7/23/21 1:11 PM, David Coudron wrote: >>>> >>>> I know, we can all make our own decisions. However, >>>> I don’t believe I have stated anything that varies >>>> from the facts. I can send you the Moderna sheet I >>>> received with my vaccine if you want to see that. >>>> >>>> Your points about FDA approval are probably >>>> accurate, however, why is not OK to say that I want >>>> to wait for the approval? That doesn’t seem so >>>> unreasonable. We don’t let folks on the plane based >>>> on the likelihood that those on the no-fly list >>>> probably won’t show up to get on the plane anyway. >>>> We still check each and every person to make sure. >>>> Just like we do the FDA approval process to make >>>> sure. Otherwise, we could just tell drug companies >>>> “if you are pretty sure you’d pass anyway, we won’t >>>> bother putting you through the approval process” >>>> We don’t do that for good reason. >>>> >>>> I agree with you on the memes both ways. Neither >>>> approach are helping the situation. It should be a >>>> discussion based upon the scientific merits of the >>>> situation. Unfortunately both side love to poke at >>>> the intelligence of those that don’t agree with >>>> their decision. >>>> >>>> There is no way to know this for sure, but I wonder >>>> how many folks publicly shaming others for not >>>> taking the vaccine know that it is not FDA approved? >>>> >>>> Likely won’t change lots of folks decisions, nor am >>>> I suggesting it should have. But I don’t think >>>> that those of us that decided to go ahead with the >>>> vaccination get to make medical decisions for those >>>> who aren’t comfortable with an experimental vaccine. >>>> >>>> *From:* AF <[email protected]> >>>> <mailto:[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Adam >>>> Moffett >>>> *Sent:* Friday, July 23, 2021 2:56 PM >>>> *To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political >>>> >>>> I'm not calling anybody stupid, but I don't agree >>>> with most of your list. >>>> >>>> On 7/23/2021 3:37 PM, David Coudron wrote: >>>> >>>> Here is what I find particularly challenging >>>> about suggesting that folks who have chosen not >>>> to take the vaccine are not that smart. >>>> >>>> 1. Folks who do that never talk about that fact >>>> that this is not an FDA approved >>>> medicine/vaccine. I took the Moderna >>>> vaccine, the paperwork clearly stated >>>> several facts. Among them are: >>>> >>>> 1. This is not FDA approved. >>>> >>>> It has an emergency use authorization. FDA approval >>>> takes a long time, but around 90% of the submissions >>>> end up approved because they are pretty well tested >>>> by the manufacturer before they apply. Anybody >>>> applying for FDA approval already has a pretty good >>>> idea whether it's going to go through or not. >>>> Presumably people on a no-fly list don't routinely >>>> show up at the airport expecting to board a plane. >>>> Presumably people don't try to get a CDL if they >>>> know they'll fail the drug test. Same idea. >>>> >>>> 2. >>>> 3. This “vaccine” has not been proven to >>>> prevent the virus. While we likely all >>>> agree that there is a very good >>>> likelihood that this “vaccine” will help >>>> prevent it, it is far from a proven fact. >>>> >>>> 99% of people dying of Covid right now are >>>> un-vaccinated. We can split hairs and say maybe it >>>> didn't prevent them from becoming infected, but it >>>> clearly prevents them from dying. >>>> >>>> 4. >>>> >>>> 2. The argument is, “there should be no reason >>>> to think this vaccine isn’t safe since >>>> people aren’t dying from taking the vaccine”. >>>> >>>> I've never heard such an argument. >>>> >>>> 3. Vaccines are a risk/reward type of medical >>>> treatment. Every medicine you take has >>>> some level of side effect. The vast >>>> majority of medicines have such negligible >>>> side effects, that they are considered >>>> completely safe. The FDA approval process >>>> exists to ensure we understand the potential >>>> of serious side effects and drug interaction >>>> issues. If you are 30 years old and folks >>>> are saying you have to take this >>>> experimental drug to prevent this incredibly >>>> small chance of you becoming seriously ill >>>> or dying, it seems like an intelligent thing >>>> to say “I am not sure the risk of getting >>>> seriously ill or dying from this disease >>>> outweighs the risk of using an experimental >>>> drug”. It used to be that people relied >>>> upon a conversation with their doctor to >>>> determine personal risk of disease and use >>>> of a drug. Apparently we no longer do >>>> that. We publicly shame people into using >>>> experimental drugs. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 4. Since it is not FDA approved, we don’t have >>>> a full understanding of drug interactions >>>> with other medicines folks need to take. >>>> >>>> It isn't some weird new chemical we just invented >>>> this year. >>>> >>>> >>>> 5. We likely understand the very common >>>> medicines, but, certainly not all. We have >>>> FDA approval processes for good reason. If >>>> for example, you were under 40 and were >>>> taking seizure control medication, it would >>>> be very fair to hold off on an experimental >>>> drug until it is fully understood if the >>>> vaccine might lessen the effectiveness of >>>> the seizure control medication. An >>>> incredibly low risk of serious illness or >>>> death from the virus could turn into a good >>>> chance of serious injury from seizure. As >>>> far as I know data like that is certainly >>>> not available yet. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 6. Why do vaccinated people feel the need to >>>> belittle those that have decided not to get >>>> vaccinated by an experimental drug? >>>> >>>> I don't know the answer to that. I'm not comfortable >>>> with that behavior either. It goes both ways >>>> though. Plenty of memes out there accusing people >>>> of being dumb sheep for taking the vaccine. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> >>> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> >> >> -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
