The whole point of their waveguide idea was to remove the jumper loss.
Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com <http://www.spitwspots.com>
On 10/19/2014 10:06 PM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote:
Maybe RF Elements is onto something with their waveguide port radios,
extend using low loss elliptical waveguide and put the radios inside a
nice building or enclosure on the ground away from the lighting.
*From:* Paul McCall via Af <mailto:[email protected]>
*Sent:* Sunday, October 19, 2014 4:42 PM
*To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons
For us, the biggest issue is the replacement cost of the 450. NOT the
initial cost, that is what it is, but we are in the lightning capital
of the world. Sometimes we can repair everything that gets hit and
sometimes on a direct strike, we can’t repair any of it. On most
towers, we deploy 5 Ghz and 2.4 Ghz, so 8 APs each. Some are only one
frequency band, so then there are only 4. Say those 4 APs are
supporting 50 customers at $ 45 each… $ 2250 / month. (most towers are
a less than that and some are more). So, if I lose $ 8K in APs ($ 2000
x 4) in one evening, I am looking at least 4 months of lost revenue
just to replace those APs (not counting labor, etc.) We have had
commercial, well-grounded towers that get hit twice in a season, so
that’s 8 months (probably more like 10 months loss in real business
terms) per year. That makes NO sense to play that game.
And, again, a lot of towers have two frequency bands, thus 8 APs. We
have had 4 commercial towers out of 18 with total losses this year on
the APs. Thankfully, the used market on 100 series APs is very low
cost, so not nearly as big of an impact.
So, with ePMP APs (while maybe not as good as 450APs) I can at least
cut my losses by 80%. That’s a big deal !
Unfortunately, that reality forces my hands.
Paul
*From:*Af [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Gino Villarini
via Af
*Sent:* Sunday, October 19, 2014 5:27 PM
*To:* <[email protected]>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons
So it's Roy against the world of sync 😀
Gino A. Villarini
@gvillarini
On Oct 19, 2014, at 5:20 PM, Rory Conaway via Af <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Yea, I covered that in one of my articles. I just didn’t see
everyone sitting around the campfire singing Kumbya. Another
reason I don’t worry about GPS. My next article covers my main
reason.
Rory
*From:*Af [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Josh
Reynolds via Af
*Sent:* Sunday, October 19, 2014 1:56 PM
*To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons
LOL :)
Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com <http://www.spitwspots.com>
On 10/19/2014 08:13 AM, Rory Conaway via Af wrote:
I’m assuming all 12 WISPs cooperate with each other?
Rory
*From:*Af [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Mike
Hammett via Af
*Sent:* Sunday, October 19, 2014 5:33 AM
*To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons
Entirely not true spoken by a WISP that has up until this
point used Mikrotik and Ubiquiti in rural and suburban markets
with 12 WISP competitors.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Mark Radabaugh via Af" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*To: *[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*Sent: *Saturday, October 18, 2014 3:52:03 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons
And now your completely out of spectrum and can't deploy
anything new. I suppose the good part for you is nobody else
can do anything given the amount of noise your making.
Mark
On 10/18/14, 1:27 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af wrote:
You just hit the nail on the head why we have never
considered deploying 450 (and similar) in the past:
By the time "you" (relative term) have the cashflow to pay
for those sectors, "we" (another relative term, for people
deploying UBNT or similar) have already thrown up 4-6
shielded sectors and at least 10 clients per. If we don't
think we can hit a decent sub density or at least make the
site a valuable repeater, then we don't go there.
Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com <http://www.spitwspots.com>
On 10/18/2014 09:01 AM, Kurt Fankhauser via Af wrote:
I prefer sectors too but math doesnt always work out.
I'll put the omni in to get the site up and once the
customers are there change it to sectors. The 450
platform is very easy to drop sectors in and have the
existing clients link right up. I have a couple sites
with existing customers i am dropping a two sector 450
system in with 120 segree KP antennas. cant afford any
more sectors than that per site right now...
Sent from my iPhone
Kurt Fankhauser
Wavelinc Communications
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
http://www.wavelinc.com
tel. 419-562-6405
fax. 419-617-0110
On Oct 18, 2014, at 11:21 AM, Mike Hammett via Af
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I've noticed a lot of PMP operators are deploying
omnis (presumably because they can't afford 4 APs.
Give me TDMA Atheros with sectors over omnis on
anything any day.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Kurt Fankhauser via Af" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*To: *[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*Sent: *Saturday, October 18, 2014 8:38:14 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons
TJ,
No difference between the 3 different frequencies
bands (other than NLOS range) as far as the
product itself they are all the same animal.
2.4ghz NLOS is slightly better than 3.65ghhz. They
all function the same and have the same expected
throughputs per channel width. They all use the
same firmware and i love the interface being the
same across all 3. The only major difference is
the 5ghz is V/H versus slant on the other two.
That just translates to the 5ghz omni being ALOT
smaller and lighter. There are some places that i
wish the 2.4ghz woulda been V/H because of the
omni size but overall I am still very happy with
the 2.4ghz 450.
Kurt Fankhauser
Wavelinc Communications
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
http://www.wavelinc.com <http://www.wavelinc.com/>
tel. 419-562-6405
fax. 419-617-0110
On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 4:57 AM, TJ Trout via Af
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Kurt,
Any pros and cons on 450 between 2ghz, 3.65 and
5? Any differences at all? Range vs throughput?
Obviously 2ghz penetrates better, 3 is licensed
and 5 has more spectrum but anything else? All
bands are open for me
Thanks
On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 11:20 PM, Kurt Fankhauser
via Af <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I started the spring deploying 450 in 2.4ghz,
5ghz, and 3.65ghz and then middle of the summer
deciding i had to"try" some ePMP because the cost
was so low I couldn't resist.... I can say now
that I am fairly certain I will probably stick
with the 450. There are many small reasons that
when I considered them all i came to this
conclusion. Here are my reasons:
1. ePMP latency starts to go up quickly once you
have more than 10 clients on an AP. Once you get
over 20 clients the latency is pretty much 25-30
ms. Cambium was honest about this at the road tour
and they noted if you want the best latency to
stick with the 450.
2. Sync between the two platforms is not there
yet. If you have adjacent towers on the different
platforms that can see each other you won't have sync.
3. No remote spectrum analyzer for clients. This
is HUGE for when the clients fire up their
wireless camera and baby monitors and trash the
whole spectrum.
4.No burst bucket on CPE's
5.EPMP Interface is SLOWWW. Cambium explained at
the tour they were offloading alot of processing
power to the PC you are viewing the interface with
and i can't be taking a quad core machine up a
tower to work on these radios and do site surveys.
I am working with a Panasonic Toughbook and takes
FOREVER to log into the EPMP radios.
6. Fore some reason site surveys are a PITA with
ePMP. Think its a combination of many factors
here... slow interface one of them...
7. EPMP in 5ghz DFS band has really low power
output. Something like 13-14db. When using an omni
antenna you can't get maximum legal EIRP out of
the ePMP.
8. 450 link tests and SM modulation is pretty
stable and predictable. EPMP seems like its all
over the place. I don't think I have yet seen EPMP
linktest get full up or down outside of a lab
environment.
There might be other reasons but I'm pretty tired
and was heading for bed.
Kurt Fankhauser
Wavelinc Communications
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
http://www.wavelinc.com <http://www.wavelinc.com/>
tel. 419-562-6405 <tel:419-562-6405>
fax. 419-617-0110 <tel:419-617-0110>
On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 5:05 PM, TJ Trout via Af
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I haven't been keeping real up to date on current
generation ptmp offerings but we have a new site
going up and I need to decide pretty quickly on
some equipment. For the guys who have been using
both 450 and epmp do you have any pros and cons ?
Any reason to spend the extra money when epmp
seems to have the same if not better performance ,
sync, etc?
My gut says 450 is going to be my best long term
solution but with all of the positive epmp
feedback it's hard to justify the extra money?
--
Mark Radabaugh
Amplex
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> 419.837.5015 x 1021
