http://www.fiercewireless.com/tech/story/startup-magnacom-hypes-spectrum-saving-alternative-qam/2013-12-17
From: Af [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway via Af Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 6:58 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons I’m not sure of your 100:1 usage ratio but keep this in mind, to extend the life of DSL, CenturyLink is building Fiber to the Node to get closer which allows them to sell 40Mbps service. Since you will be able to easily deliver 500-1Gbps on a single AP (realistically, I’d be comfortable with the 500Mbps to start), instead of delivering FTTH, deliver Fiber to the Node (FTTN) and the use wireless for the last few hundred feet. If it was a bad technical/business mode, Vivint wouldn’t be doing it. However, I don’t even think FTTN is necessary in most areas based on what I know. Keep in mind that 802.11ac CPE’s will be hitting 250Mbps or more. I don’t see 100mbps being needed for a few more years, as right now, 4K NetFlix is the only real high bandwidth app on the near Horizon. Fiber is great if you can amortize it but next generation wireless will be more profitable in the short term. BTW, I just read that someone has already successfully tested 4096 and the WAM guys are saying they are even better. Wireless isn’t even close to hitting it’s limits. Rory From: Af [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Joe Falaschi via Af Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 6:19 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons In parts of our suburban coverage NW of Chicago we cannot coordinate 6GHz or 11GHz at some specific sites. What does the picture look like in 10 years when we need to also feed hundreds and hundreds of micropops... To some extent I'm not sure wireless will be a service for the masses. How do you provide 50/10 service to all homes and businesses in a 3000 to 4000:1 population density area? We are 100% wireless right now but it does seem like fiber is the way things are going. Use the wireless to get a customer base to convert later and then keep wireless as a premium product where diversity is required. Until then we will continue to be a boutique player in these areas. I am excited about the new tech coming out and I'm not trying to say we won't take any advance in technology. It will help greatly in low density areas but will future wireless scale to a true high density area for someone who is going to take significant market share? For example 14000 population in 4 miles, 50% take rate, 7000 customers. 50Mbps service. 100:1 usage ratio. Is that 3.5Gbps of usage using those assumptions? Maybe, until you need to provide 100Mbps service much less 1Gbps. I'd love for someone to make it possible without going down the fiber route but it doesn't seem obvious to me right now that 100% wireless could take the place of Comcast's Internet product in urban and suburban areas. Joe Falaschi http://www.e-vergent.com On 10/19/14, 11:09 PM, Tyler Treat via Af wrote: What's your Backhaul strategy for having this many sites. How many hops do you get from fiber? With a ton of small sites, it seems like it would scale to an unmanageable level very quickly...? ___________________________ Mangled by my iPhone. ___________________________ Tyler Treat Corn Belt Technologies, Inc. [email protected] ___________________________ On Oct 19, 2014, at 10:52 PM, Rory Conaway via Af <[email protected]> wrote: +1. I’ve already hit CenturyLink’s fastest speeds with anemic little Rocket 5M’s and nothing special. Imagine what happens when the Rocket AC or Mimosa come out with their products. Those features target the urban market where which I’ve seen numbers like 84% of the population is and for the most part, WISPS aren’t. Rory From: Af [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds via Af Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 5:39 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons Microcells normally have good SNR. Add 802.11AC into the mix and you have very good performance without the crappy latency hit. Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com On 10/19/2014 05:27 PM, Mike Hammett via Af wrote: Then you miss out on the best performance. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com ________________________________ From: "Rory Conaway via Af" <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 4:33:21 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons Ahh, difference of philosophies. I just don’t want my business dependent on competitors or single suppliers. Rory From: Af [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini via Af Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 2:27 PM To: <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons So it's Roy against the world of sync Gino A. Villarini @gvillarini On Oct 19, 2014, at 5:20 PM, Rory Conaway via Af <[email protected]> wrote: Yea, I covered that in one of my articles. I just didn’t see everyone sitting around the campfire singing Kumbya. Another reason I don’t worry about GPS. My next article covers my main reason. Rory From: Af [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds via Af Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 1:56 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons LOL :) Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com On 10/19/2014 08:13 AM, Rory Conaway via Af wrote: I’m assuming all 12 WISPs cooperate with each other? Rory From: Af [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett via Af Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 5:33 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons Entirely not true spoken by a WISP that has up until this point used Mikrotik and Ubiquiti in rural and suburban markets with 12 WISP competitors. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com ________________________________ From: "Mark Radabaugh via Af" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 3:52:03 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons And now your completely out of spectrum and can't deploy anything new. I suppose the good part for you is nobody else can do anything given the amount of noise your making. Mark On 10/18/14, 1:27 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af wrote: You just hit the nail on the head why we have never considered deploying 450 (and similar) in the past: By the time "you" (relative term) have the cashflow to pay for those sectors, "we" (another relative term, for people deploying UBNT or similar) have already thrown up 4-6 shielded sectors and at least 10 clients per. If we don't think we can hit a decent sub density or at least make the site a valuable repeater, then we don't go there. Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com On 10/18/2014 09:01 AM, Kurt Fankhauser via Af wrote: I prefer sectors too but math doesnt always work out. I'll put the omni in to get the site up and once the customers are there change it to sectors. The 450 platform is very easy to drop sectors in and have the existing clients link right up. I have a couple sites with existing customers i am dropping a two sector 450 system in with 120 segree KP antennas. cant afford any more sectors than that per site right now... Sent from my iPhone Kurt Fankhauser Wavelinc Communications P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 http://www.wavelinc.com tel. 419-562-6405 fax. 419-617-0110 On Oct 18, 2014, at 11:21 AM, Mike Hammett via Af <[email protected]> wrote: I've noticed a lot of PMP operators are deploying omnis (presumably because they can't afford 4 APs. Give me TDMA Atheros with sectors over omnis on anything any day. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com ________________________________ From: "Kurt Fankhauser via Af" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 8:38:14 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons TJ, No difference between the 3 different frequencies bands (other than NLOS range) as far as the product itself they are all the same animal. 2.4ghz NLOS is slightly better than 3.65ghhz. They all function the same and have the same expected throughputs per channel width. They all use the same firmware and i love the interface being the same across all 3. The only major difference is the 5ghz is V/H versus slant on the other two. That just translates to the 5ghz omni being ALOT smaller and lighter. There are some places that i wish the 2.4ghz woulda been V/H because of the omni size but overall I am still very happy with the 2.4ghz 450. Kurt Fankhauser Wavelinc Communications P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 http://www.wavelinc.com <http://www.wavelinc.com/> tel. 419-562-6405 fax. 419-617-0110 On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 4:57 AM, TJ Trout via Af <[email protected]> wrote: Kurt, Any pros and cons on 450 between 2ghz, 3.65 and 5? Any differences at all? Range vs throughput? Obviously 2ghz penetrates better, 3 is licensed and 5 has more spectrum but anything else? All bands are open for me Thanks On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 11:20 PM, Kurt Fankhauser via Af <[email protected]> wrote: I started the spring deploying 450 in 2.4ghz, 5ghz, and 3.65ghz and then middle of the summer deciding i had to"try" some ePMP because the cost was so low I couldn't resist.... I can say now that I am fairly certain I will probably stick with the 450. There are many small reasons that when I considered them all i came to this conclusion. Here are my reasons: 1. ePMP latency starts to go up quickly once you have more than 10 clients on an AP. Once you get over 20 clients the latency is pretty much 25-30 ms. Cambium was honest about this at the road tour and they noted if you want the best latency to stick with the 450. 2. Sync between the two platforms is not there yet. If you have adjacent towers on the different platforms that can see each other you won't have sync. 3. No remote spectrum analyzer for clients. This is HUGE for when the clients fire up their wireless camera and baby monitors and trash the whole spectrum. 4.No burst bucket on CPE's 5.EPMP Interface is SLOWWW. Cambium explained at the tour they were offloading alot of processing power to the PC you are viewing the interface with and i can't be taking a quad core machine up a tower to work on these radios and do site surveys. I am working with a Panasonic Toughbook and takes FOREVER to log into the EPMP radios. 6. Fore some reason site surveys are a PITA with ePMP. Think its a combination of many factors here... slow interface one of them... 7. EPMP in 5ghz DFS band has really low power output. Something like 13-14db. When using an omni antenna you can't get maximum legal EIRP out of the ePMP. 8. 450 link tests and SM modulation is pretty stable and predictable. EPMP seems like its all over the place. I don't think I have yet seen EPMP linktest get full up or down outside of a lab environment. There might be other reasons but I'm pretty tired and was heading for bed. Kurt Fankhauser Wavelinc Communications P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 http://www.wavelinc.com <http://www.wavelinc.com/> tel. 419-562-6405 fax. 419-617-0110 On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 5:05 PM, TJ Trout via Af <[email protected]> wrote: I haven't been keeping real up to date on current generation ptmp offerings but we have a new site going up and I need to decide pretty quickly on some equipment. For the guys who have been using both 450 and epmp do you have any pros and cons ? Any reason to spend the extra money when epmp seems to have the same if not better performance , sync, etc? My gut says 450 is going to be my best long term solution but with all of the positive epmp feedback it's hard to justify the extra money? -- Mark Radabaugh Amplex [email protected] 419.837.5015 x 1021
