Trading money for hassle. Hassle won.

On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 9:25 AM, Chuck McCown <[email protected]> wrote:

> Yeah, their solar panel was a thin film rolled into a tube.  They slid
> that into a glass tube and injected some kind of oil in between.  The
> modules were arrays of tubes with a gap between tubes.
>
> They were better at constant out put, but they were really bad on watts
> per square foot and dollars per watt.  My son bought truckloads of them
> when they went bankrupt.
>
> *From:* Cameron Crum <[email protected]>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 22, 2015 8:01 AM
> *To:* [email protected]
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] The dreaded annual "how to keep snow and ice off
> my solar panels" thread
>
> Wasn't this sort of Solindra's idea? Tube shaped solar "panels" with a
> white reflective surface underneath so that no matter the angle some part
> of the panel was always getting light. It took more "tubes" but removed the
> hassle of having to worry about angles and time of day.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 8:23 AM, Chuck McCown <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Have you tried inverted panels?
>>
>> (Most on this list have probably heard this story before.)
>>
>> I had a mountain top site that lost about half of its power production
>> after a big storm.  Flew over it and found that one set of panels had come
>> loose at the top and flopped over so they were facing the ground at an
>> angle.  Probably 30 degrees from horizontal.
>>
>> The snow on the ground was reflecting the sunlight up into the panels and
>> they were actually putting out a surprising amount of power.  Could always
>> count on them being alive the day after the storm.  I figured if I ever had
>> to do an extreme high reliability site, I would build a white reflector on
>> the ground and use inverted panels over it.  Have to work on the geometry
>> of the reflector and panels but it could be a useful emergency source of
>> power in areas where snow and ice cause problems.  You normally have the
>> clearest skies and brightest sun the day after the storm.
>>
>> *From:* Steve D <[email protected]>
>> *Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2015 10:37 PM
>> *To:* af <[email protected]>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] The dreaded annual "how to keep snow and ice off
>> my solar panels" thread
>>
>> Vertical panels is something we're experimenting with as well.  Started
>> ignoring "optimum" angles years ago and pushed the panels as steep as they
>> would go with existing hardware (about 80-85) but it's amazing what will
>> still stick.  Last winter we had a freezing rain that built up ice on the
>> bottom metal lip around the glass and the wet sticky snow that followed
>> built up 4-5 inches on top of that, even at those angles.  (Last year was
>> honestly the worst year for our solar sites in the last few years.)
>>
>> We're in the process of beefing up and extending the angle brackets for
>> the racks at two sites so that we can go all the way vertical.  I think
>> snow will be fine at one of the low elevation sites, but the high elevation
>> I still half expect to see them covered in hoar frost.
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 1:17 PM, Eric Kuhnke <
>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> If you're off grid and at latitude 35N or higher...  The one thing you
>>> should care about is cumulative kWh production in December and January.
>>>
>>> Try putting the panels at an 85 or 90 degree tilt (yes, really) facing
>>> due south. You will produce a lot less in June/July but your winter
>>> production will be maximized. This also has the effect of ameliorating snow
>>> and ice buildup thanks to gravity.
>>>
>>> The US DoE NREL and other sources have a lot of research on latitude vs.
>>> angle tilt of solar panels. Ignore everything intended for gridtie
>>> applications and stuff like "tilt the solar panels at the same angle as
>>> your latitude".  There are some online calculators like pvwatts that will
>>> show you your December and January production for a 45 degree tilt vs. an
>>> 85 degree tilt.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/19/15 11:05 PM, Steve D wrote:
>>>
>>>> Maybe it's Saturday night exhaustion talking, but piping the exhaust
>>>> from a standby generator toward the back of solar panels a bad idea?  I'd
>>>> expect it to not put heat on the panels in the summer except it's weekly
>>>> exercise cycle but that shouldn't be too bad?  LP too so shouldn't be any
>>>> soot.  Or would this just create one little hole of open panel and a pile
>>>> of ice?  Bad in general for the panels?
>>>>
>>>> If I did this again, I'd put the damn thing directly under the
>>>> panels... these Onan's get stinking hot.  My little "cool running",
>>>> comparatively speaking, portable yamaha's will melt a two foot radius of
>>>> snow around them if they run for a good length of time, all this heat going
>>>> to waste!  The Onan would probably clear the whole rack if it was sitting
>>>> right below it.
>>>>
>>>> Grumble grumble... snow... something, something, curse words...
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Steve D
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

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