Lewis,
You are correct in that P25 is the only real DIGITAL radio
viability right now. Problem is many people still don’t see the need to go
digital. The high cost of a project 25 systems typically requires buy in from
all agencies to share the system and costs involved with such a deployment
(that central site controller is a big nut to crack on price for one agency).
While the cheap Chinese radios are not high grade for some applications I
agree, the analog radios from manufacturers like Motorola and other are still
less than half the cost of a P25 radio and just as durable and reliable if not
more so than P25. It’s a tough sell for most smaller agencies and don’t even
get me started on how helpless they become if their core network goes down on a
digital or trunked radio system. After Hurricane Katrina the city of New
Orleans couldn’t communicate because the core system went down. They had so
little understanding of their radio system they did not realize that they did
have some ability to communicate without the central control working. Too much
complexity tied in to one standalone system for public safety really puts their
communications at risk when a disaster strikes. A good old analog radio voice
dispatch network, a separate digital/data network and then cell phones gives
multiple separate methods of communication. All with their plusses and minuses
but looking at the odds of all those systems being down at once versus a single
all in one radio communications system….I’ll take the separate systems, been
through too many disasters in my life as a public safety dispatcher and ham
radio operator to put my eggs all in one basket. The Motorola sales reps would
obviously disagree……and since all that company really has left to sell is
public safety radio systems, expect them to get more aggressive about trying to
sell these systems.
Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
www.Broadband-Mapping.com
From: Af [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 9:27 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT 2-way radio systems
For my tower work I am happy with Cheap radios... Public safety is another
world...but the point I so poorly tried to make Is that I like the sound of my
Icoms over the Motorola ones used around my area...but again I didnt like the
Harris digital voice either. Its me.. Okay...stop making sense ...my head will
blow up
Jaime Solorza
On Nov 4, 2015 6:56 PM, "Lewis Bergman" <[email protected]> wrote:
Firstnet is still an 8 billion dollar pipe dream. VoLTE is still vaporware.
P25, like it or not, is really the only viable option right now. Sure, twenty
years from now P25 might not be the right option. But right now, show me
another?
Tetra isn't an option because there aren't enough 25KHz channels to make a
large system work in most cases. And if you want to see expensive try out a
tetra terminal. They make P25 look reasonable. By the way, Motorola invented
Tetra too.
Blaming Motorola for inventing something, and then not wanting to give it away
is simply rediculous. Would you do that?
Lastly, you are not seriously comparing a $100 Chinese piece of crap to a piece
of gear you would bet your life on are you? Really? About the cheapest P25
portable you can get is $1250 while the same model without P25 is about $855.
So the license to do P25 is about $400. Pretty pricey no doubt. Maybe to much,
but also reliable.
But, not everyone wants the reliability, interoperability, or the price tag
that goes with it.
I honestly think DMR TIER 3 has some compelling arguements at a better price
point. But like most other protocols it is late to the party.
On Wed, Nov 4, 2015, 6:21 PM Chuck McCown <[email protected]> wrote:
Thanks Brian. No, Utah is asking the taxpayer for $236 million...
Lots of people arguing against it.
From: Brian Webster <mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 4:57 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT 2-way radio systems
P25 or Project 25 was a Motorola proprietary technology that was developed in
the 80’s. They championed it to APCO to become the digital standard for public
safety radio systems. APCO would not adopt it until Motorola agree to license
it to other manufacturers. That delayed the process a very long time and
Motorola went kicking and screaming in to the agreements at first. It was not
cheap for a manufacturer to go that way but APCO did not want a single vendor
solution. In the rest of the world the Tetra standard was adopted but again
this are older technologies. Now the push is for LTE and Voice over LTE. When
the FCC mandated narrowbanding for analog VHF and UHF radio systems they gave a
15 year window to migrate. Even with that much lead time big cities like NYC,
Boston, DC and others did not make the deadline because it was typically a
complete system replacement. These big cities got waivers with a plan to
migrate, those plans were special licenses for the Firstnet spectrum and the
plan to develop a public safety grade/reliable voice over IP type network to
become their primary dispatch radio system in conjunction with their data
deployments. That VoLTE development is ongoing. They need a lot more
reliability than what Nextel and CDMA push to talk cellular solutions currently
deliver.
Given that VoLTE development and the push for FirstNet systems, many folks
argue that it’s a waste of money to go P25 at this point. There are even some
Tetra deployments now in the US. Seems to me a standard that follows LTE and
will also work in the narrowband spectrum of public safety radio systems is
more productive. I started my wireless career in public safety radio designing
and selling Motorola systems. I think they build a great product but P25 radios
are way too expensive for smaller agencies to afford them. With the
proliferation of sub $100 FCC approved Chinese radios out there, it’s real hard
to justify these digital systems when one is on a budget. P25 radios are in the
$1500 per radio price range. Small fire, EMS and law enforcement agencies have
a hard time paying those prices. There are benefits to digital systems but in
all honesty many users don’t take advantage of them. The cost of the central
site controllers for the system really pushes the price tag up. To add insult
to injury almost all federal grant programs now state that if there are radios
involved, they HAVE to be P25 compliant. The DOD has mandated all radios be P25
compliant. If Utah is getting grant money that is probably why they are going
P25.
Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
www.Broadband-Mapping.com
From: Af [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of chuck@
<mailto:[email protected]> wbmfg.com <mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 4:56 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT 2-way radio systems
Thanks, that is helpful.
From: George <mailto:[email protected]> Skorup <mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2015 2:50 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT 2-way radio systems
Illinois has state-wide P25 (owned and operated by Motorola Solutions).
Interoperability between agencies and all of the other P25 stuff is nice, but
every little town can't afford it and that's why we still have little dispatch
centers that represent small communities and make use of regular old analog
VHF. Plus, a lot of users on the state system say the coverage sucks, and that
would be Motorola not building enough sites.
On 11/4/2015 1:16 PM, [email protected] wrote:
In Utah, there is a very very large proposal to change all the 2-way radios for
public safety out to a P25 system.� Some of the opponents say this is an
outdated system.� I had not heard that before.� Looking for opinions.�
