This. Certainly has to be one of our worst failed leadership installations. Pretty much went against everything we say we stand for - and it backfired, big time.
On Sunday, November 15, 2015, Chuck McCown <[email protected]> wrote: > > As far as evil dictators go, one wonders how the world would be if we had > not installed and maintained the Shah. > > *From:* Ken Hohhof <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> > *Sent:* Sunday, November 15, 2015 12:35 PM > *To:* [email protected] <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT more political opinion > > There was a reason Poppy Bush didn’t take Baghdad and topple Saddam when > he could have. Junior thought he knew better. Hah, Poppy is a wimp, I’ll > show him. No, Poppy was a realist, and knew the evil dictator in Baghdad > was better than the alternatives, at least from our self interested > perspective. He just needed his wings clipped when he tried to take Kuwait > (which he probably wouldn’t have tried if we had sent clear signals that > would be a no-no). > > Not that all the evil dictators we supported were a good idea in > hindsight, like Pahlavi, Batista, etc. > > > *From:* Chuck McCown <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> > *Sent:* Sunday, November 15, 2015 1:02 PM > *To:* [email protected] <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> > *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT more political opinion > > OK, so pride between CIA bureaucrats got us into Iraq the second time, we > still almost prevailed. > > If you remember the “mission accomplished” event, at that time Jay Garner > was the head of the Coalition Provisional Authority. Garner was a get’er > done type of guy but he liked polo shirts instead of suits. > > He told the White House that we could control the whole Iraqi regular army > by giving them all a washing machine and a small paycheck every month. He > had most of the family/clan leaders pacified and was expecting to truly win > the hearts and minds of the civilians. > > So, what happened.... > > Because Jay was not wearing suits he was not presenting the best image of > the USA and he got summarily replaced by Paul Bremmer. Paul must be > smarter than Jay because he replaced Jay, right? So he gutted the plans to > pacify the regulars and they (Iraqi Army Regulars) then made alliances with > the various clans and it all went to hell. > > Again pride. We got a second chance and Pride killed it again. > > *From:* Chuck McCown <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> > *Sent:* Sunday, November 15, 2015 11:42 AM > *To:* [email protected] <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG][WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis français > > Interesting book about an Iraqi informant that just wanted a Mercedes from > the CIA. His code name was curveball and that is also the name of the > book. The CIA had the internal folks fighting with the external folks > about whether we could trust this source. The source was being interview > by Germans. We chose to believe his story about the WMD labs etc instead > of vetting it thoroughly. > > Turn out he was full of BS and we lost a bunch of kids in Iraq as a > result. > > Internal pissing contests between CIA bureaucrats is what ultimately > caused that fiasco. Pride. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curveball_(informant) > > Surprised there is not a movie yet. > > *From:* Mathew Howard > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> > *Sent:* Sunday, November 15, 2015 9:37 AM > *To:* af <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG][WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis français > > > I'm not sure anyone thinks that going into Iraq in the first place was a > good decision, at this point... > > I've always thought Kurdistan should at least be independent, but Turkey > won't let that happen... > On Nov 15, 2015 10:30 AM, "Jaime Solorza" <[email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> wrote: > >> Stay out of politics is what I meant >> On Nov 15, 2015 9:28 AM, "Jaime Solorza" <[email protected] >> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> wrote: >> >>> Whoa. I want to stay out but Bush got us into Iraq when Afghanistan was >>> were we needed to be all along. Even his dad has stated that and facts >>> have shown this was a mistake plus helped leave vacuum filled by Isil ....I >>> take this very personally as my son served in Iraq and tells me it was >>> wrong. Now he is in and out of hospital and rehab clinics dealing with >>> PTSD and other symptoms. Obama inherited this mess. No easy solution >>> when dealing with fanatics...any kind....look at KKK and other hate groups >>> here in USA. Its a tough reality. God bless us all. >>> On Nov 15, 2015 9:18 AM, "Mathew Howard" <[email protected] >>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> wrote: >>> >>>> I have to agree... even if we had stayed in Iraq, there wouldn't be a >>>> stable democracy, it just isn't going to work in that part of the world. >>>> Six brutal dictators probably would be just about the only way to stabilize >>>> the mess. Either that, or we go back and occupy it... forever, which I >>>> don't think many people would want to do. >>>> >>>> On Sun, Nov 15, 2015 at 8:04 AM, Lewis Bergman <[email protected] >>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I am no Obama or Hillary fan but I don't think staying would have been >>>>> all that different in the end. Everyone has failed at peace in the middle >>>>> East. Everyone will fail. I honestly don't understand why everyone keeps >>>>> trying. In my opinion the best thing is what you mentioned. >>>>> We should get with Russia, since they have the inside line on >>>>> dictators, and find about six really brutal people to take over the middle >>>>> East. Judging from our Iran experiment we could get maybe forty years of >>>>> peace. >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Nov 15, 2015, 7:53 AM Rory Conaway <[email protected] >>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> We had our chance to stop it in Iraq, we cut and run. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> And you are right, we didn’t do the right bombing in Vietnam to stop >>>>>> that war. And what Ford did at the end is the lesson Obama should have >>>>>> learned which could have prevented much of what happened in the Middle >>>>>> East >>>>>> including ISIS. Apparently they didn’t teach history to at Harvard. >>>>>> Imagine the influence a multi-cultural and stable Iraqi government would >>>>>> have had on the region. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Rory >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:[email protected] >>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>] *On Behalf >>>>>> Of *Lewis Bergman >>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 15, 2015 6:31 AM >>>>>> *To:* [email protected] <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis >>>>>> français >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Collateral damage is highly underrated. Vietnam had no wholesale >>>>>> bombing like WWII. that is one reason Vietnam, and the rest of these >>>>>> conflicts, last so long. >>>>>> >>>>>> The horror of war has to be brought to everyone, including those >>>>>> making the decisions, to bring it to an end. >>>>>> >>>>>> But having said that, this Muslim extremists movement has been been >>>>>> going on for about 700 years so it may be to much to expect to be out of >>>>>> war again. There may be a lull, but I think the entire world has been >>>>>> drawn >>>>>> into the middle East quagmire. >>>>>> >>>>>> The primary cause damn sure isn't a two degrees warming tend in a >>>>>> couple decades. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Nov 15, 2015, 7:05 AM Rory Conaway <[email protected] >>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> The problem is that they are basically imbedded with civilians. How >>>>>> do you kill them without taking out everyone else. That is the problem >>>>>> we >>>>>> have had all along. Door-to-door warfare is all that you can do but it’s >>>>>> also the most dangerous for our soldiers and nobody is going to allow >>>>>> wholesale bombing like Nixon did in Vietnam. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> We also burned a lot of good will in all the countries we need to do >>>>>> this with when we got the local civilians to act as translators and >>>>>> informants and abandoned them after the war, the highest profile of them >>>>>> the doctor in Pakistan. Even he is still in jail years later but the >>>>>> reality is, nobody trusts us any more in those regions. We are not a >>>>>> reliable ally. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Rory >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:[email protected] >>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>] *On Behalf >>>>>> Of *Jaime Solorza >>>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, November 14, 2015 11:06 AM >>>>>> *To:* Animal Farm <[email protected] >>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis >>>>>> français >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> as much as i hate war and killing....I agree we need to make a >>>>>> parking lot out of them... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Jaime Solorza >>>>>> >>>>>> Wireless Systems Architect >>>>>> >>>>>> 915-861-1390 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Nov 14, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Chuck McCown <[email protected] >>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> The more of this that happens, the more the rest of the world will >>>>>> unite to rub them out. I am a hopeless optimist. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:* Jaime Solorza >>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> >>>>>> >>>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, November 14, 2015 7:52 AM >>>>>> >>>>>> *To:* Animal Farm <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> >>>>>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG][WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis >>>>>> français >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes. I am praying for them and the world. What a tragedy.. It is >>>>>> beyond barbaric..its evil for the sake of evil. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jaime Solorza >>>>>> >>>>>> On Nov 13, 2015 10:15 PM, "Faisal Imtiaz" <[email protected] >>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Oui , et pas seulement cela , nos cœurs et nos prières pour tous ceux >>>>>> qui sont touchés par cette Sensless actes brabaric . >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Faisal Imtiaz >>>>>> >>>>>> Snappy Internet & Telecom >>>>>> 7266 SW 48 Street >>>>>> Miami, FL 33155 >>>>>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 >>>>>> >>>>>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: [email protected] >>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> >>>>>> *From: *"Patrick Leary" <[email protected] >>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> >>>>>> *To: *"WISPA General List" <[email protected] >>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>>, "Telrad List" >>>>>> <[email protected] <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>>, >>>>>> [email protected] <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>, >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> >>>>>> *Sent: *Friday, November 13, 2015 7:46:29 PM >>>>>> *Subject: *[WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis français >>>>>> >>>>>> Tonght, chaque personne libre est un Parisien. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Patrick Leary >>>>>> >>>>>> Telrad >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ************************************************************************************ >>>>>> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by >>>>>> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & >>>>>> computer viruses. >>>>>> >>>>>> ************************************************************************************ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Wireless mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> >>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>
