And voice cried out from the distance... Tear the system down, tear it down, down to the ground.. .. As the city sleeps...
On Oct 10, 2016 5:02 PM, "Sam Kirsch" <sam...@plexicomm.net> wrote: > "If they do not include tort reform in the equation, it is never going to > change. " > > This is where meaningful healthcare reform would need to start. > > This may be a niche example, but when it comes to medical insurance > premiums Obstetrics pretty much rules the roost: > > My father was a OB/GYN and pretty much practicing up until the day he died > about 6 years ago. He was 83 at the time. He had to give up the > Obstetrics portion of his practice about 13 years beforehand though; > > As an older male OB/GYN he simply had less patients who could potentially > give birth. For those patients who were really looking forward to having > their long time OB/GYN deliver their baby (in some rare cases patients whom > he had delivered himself as well) he was forced to carry a premium of over > $500,000 per year in obstetrics malpractice insurance alone. Due to his > age he was at the max rate in New York by default, his prior good works (or > lack of claims) had no bearing after 63. > > My Dad was the kinda Doc where if you made an appointment with him you got > an hour of *his* time, not 20 minutes with the nurse, 20 minutes staring at > the wall and 10 minutes with the doc who was in a rush to see the next > patient and then 10 minutes waiting for 'papers' or whatever. So he knew > which of his patients were trying to get pregnant and certainly knew which > ones already were and would be due within the next year when he had to make > this choice about re-upping the insurance and whether he'd actually deliver > enough babies to make it fiscally worthwhile. Many times in those last 7-8 > years after 63 but before he was forced out of Obstetrics he chose to live > off retirement savings (and my parents having to sell the house my sister > and I grew up in long before they meant to also due to this choice) than > actually make any money that year -- which I guess worked out well since he > never actually retired! > > The OB/GYN is pretty much going to get sued if there is anything wrong > with the baby, any physical or neurological defect that wasn't spotted or > tested for. Whatever an insurance company can't just throw out they > typically just settle, it saves everyone money in the long run. > > I was maybe 15 or 16 when this was all explained to me, and it still blows > my mind to this day; "I have to pay $500,000 per year in case a baby comes > out with a defect. If the baby has a defect the parents will usually sue > for the full $1.2million that they can claim. If the defect they are suing > over is ANYTHING that could potentially be the fault of the doctor there is > no review, no hearing, no trial; my insurance company does what they can to > settle. I usually don't get to know what the settlements are but whatever > it is its low enough to do things this way. Plus its nice to know that I > get to pay $500,000 to ensure that no one has my back!" He said that last > part with a laugh, but, I knew that the lack of them fighting for him is > what really got to him after paying all that money each year, he'd rather > have had the day in court to prove he did nothing wrong. > > But that's the way things go these days! I just love that you have to pay > insurance to be treated by a doctor who has to pay insurance to treat you > and the folks who set the caps and are responsible for the checks & > balances are the same folks who can attend as many insurance lobbyist > luncheons as they can in between votes! Oy. > > > > *-- Samuel Kirsch, Network SupportPlexicomm - Internet Solutions | > www.plexicomm.net <http://www.plexicomm.net/>* > *Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 <1.866.759.4678%20x109> | Fax: 1.866.852.4688 > <1.866.852.4688>* > *Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 <1.866.759.9713> | sam...@plexicomm.net > <sam...@plexicomm.net>* > > > > ------ Original Message ------ > From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: 10/10/2016 5:50:44 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - Politics > > > If they do not include tort reform in the equation, it is never going to > change. > > *From:* Ken Hohhof > *Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2016 3:39 PM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - Politics > > > I don’t know specifically about the UK, but most of Europe has a high VAT > which is a very regressive tax. But that is offset by many government > funded social services, free college tuition, stuff like that. > > > > Politicians here in the US tend to ignore that you can’t have one without > the other. > > > > Kind of like requiring insurance companies to insure everyone even those > with pre-existing conditions, goes along with the individual mandate so > healthy young people can’t opt out (and then sign up when they get sick). > Politicians will propose getting rid of one but keeping the other, which > will not fly. The politicians probably know better, but they are > pandering. Well, some are pandering, some may actually think you can eat > the cow and still get milk. > > > > > > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Travis Johnson > *Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2016 4:27 PM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - Politics > > > > Hi, > > Just curious, do you know what her tax rates are like? It seems like the > money has to come from somewhere for National Health Care, so I'm curious > if it's part of their income tax structure, or somewhere else? > > Travis > > On 10/10/2016 3:15 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: > > Some things should not see competition. > > Municipal water and sewer systems for example. Streets, roads and > highways. > > One can make a pretty good argument for the power company. Gas company. > > Less so for Telco and CATV. > > > > So what is healthcare? Similar to national defense? We already have 5-6 > branches of the armed forces duplicating services there. > > Similar to public education? We have competition there too. (Are the > Merchant Marine their own branch?) > > > > I have a daughter that lives in England. She loves the National Health > System. And they have private doctors if they want them too. > > > > Somebody will win a nobel prize in economics if they can model this and > produce the correct answer. > > > > *From:* Lewis Bergman > > *Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2016 2:47 PM > > *To:* af@afmug.com > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - Politics > > > > I struggle to recall much of anything that thrives, innovates, and is > efficient without competition. > > > > On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 3:44 PM Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I still think that it would be better with a single payer system like > what's in use in most other countries in the world. > > Problem is we would have to figure out how to do that without letting the > government administer it. > > > > bp > > <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> > > > > On 10/10/2016 1:22 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: > > Amen. > > > > (I was actually hoping the ACA would bring insurance to low income folks. > Didn’t happen. I personally know a handful that tried and could not get > something they could afford. Even the low cost packages had deductable > like $1500. Stay poor and stay on Medicaid was my advice to them...) > > > > *From:* Lewis Bergman > > *Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2016 2:17 PM > > *To:* af@afmug.com > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - Politics > > > > The trouble with facts is the government is in charge of keeping them so > it is very difficult to get a real picture of what has or is going on. > > What is a surplus? well, most administrations that I remember state that > they have a surplus when the money they spent was less than they were going > to spend or the money they were going to spend was less than what they took > in. > > > > None of how the government accounts for money would work for anyone who > can't print their own. It doesn't matter who is in charge, it is extremely > difficult to plow through all the BS they throw up to get to the real > numbers. Doesn't matter if it is deportations and what counts as one, > "saving money" and what counts as that, some word called winning which I'll > be damned if I know what that means anymore. Trump uses that word a lot but > I am not sure he can explain what he mans by it. > > > > I just had to turn the debate off. It is just so hard to imagine that we > are in this mess. But democracy is messy. The good news is that the > president can hardly ruin everything without a lot of cooperation. Even > Obama could barely get healthcare passed with both houses. Both of these > characters are so well hated by so many I can't imagine they will be able > to do anything but appoint people and make executive orders. > > > > Of course, it is better for the economy when congress can't pass laws > anyway. > > > > On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 2:54 PM Robert Andrews <i...@avantwireless.com> > wrote: > > The jist of what I said earlier is that Trump is there to make others > look good _BY Comparison_... When looked at on absolute scales other > things may be observed... > > On 10/10/2016 12:50 PM, Bill Prince wrote: > > The Clinton Foundation has actually done some good in the world; as > > opposed to the other guy's. His "Foundation" has served no one other > > than himself or his "companies". > > > > > > bp > > <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> > > > > On 10/10/2016 12:48 PM, Robert Andrews wrote: > >> Yep and that was the start of the Clinton Foundation... > >> > >> On 10/10/2016 12:41 PM, Bill Prince wrote: > >>> Don't forget it was a republican congress that wrote and passed the > >>> legislation. > >>> > >>> I'm not taking him off the hook, just pointing out that it takes two to > >>> tango. > >>> > >>> > >>> bp > >>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> > >>> > >>> On 10/10/2016 12:35 PM, Robert Andrews wrote: > >>>> Once again, Chuck, you nailed it... BC was just lucky to be sitting > >>>> on a mountain of money and it made him look like a god.. Then he > >>>> signed the dumbest piece of legislature to come along in 50 years > >>>> against advice on the last few days of his presidency.. Not inspiring > >>>> in any way... But we are now wedged and your advice is correct. We > >>>> will survive another 4 years and hope she doesn't pull a BC on her > >>>> last days in office. > >>>> > >>>> On 10/10/2016 10:45 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: > >>>>> Bill Clinton just happened to coincide with the tech boom and the > >>>>> advent > >>>>> of the commercial internet. That is what produced the surplus, he > >>>>> just > >>>>> lucked out. His decisions to deregulate mortgage banking is what > >>>>> brought us all back down in 2008. > >>>>> I have told former business partners (upon learning of their > >>>>> infidelity) > >>>>> if you will cheat on your spouse you sure as hell will cheat me. > >>>>> In my mind the game is over. 4 years of watching something that > could > >>>>> have been so much better lies ahead. Been through it before, can > >>>>> endure > >>>>> it again. > >>>>> Winston Churchill said Democracy is the WORST form of governments.... > >>>>> except for all the others. > >>>>> *From:* Jaime Solorza > >>>>> *Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2016 11:37 AM > >>>>> *To:* Animal Farm > >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - Politics > >>>>> Now you sound like my Trump loving buddy....state facts.....not > >>>>> shit you > >>>>> hear from Hannity, OReilly, Limbaugh and bunch.. > >>>>> Bill Clinton (An unfaithful husband....I don't mince words) > >>>>> balanced the > >>>>> budget and we had a surplus....a Democrat..but he didn't do it > >>>>> BFM...(By > >>>>> Fucking Magic for you hard of hearing)...it took both sides to get > >>>>> those > >>>>> things going....Knock Obama all you want, you do anyways, but he > >>>>> inherited a shit storm and even with all the Republican resistance, > >>>>> got > >>>>> us out of the recession. Trump used the recession to make > >>>>> money..(fact...like Potter in Capra's movie)...Trump keeps blaming > >>>>> Obama > >>>>> for ISIS!!! really.....lets revise history like our Texas Board of > >>>>> Education does all the time.....Wrong is wrong, no matter who does > >>>>> it....Clinton, Trump, Kennedy and other presidents cheated on their > >>>>> wives...I bought out my first business partner for just > >>>>> that...cheating > >>>>> on his wife and children...Guess I am old school, but if a man > >>>>> cheats on > >>>>> those close to him, where the hell do I stand in that relationship? > >>>>> Goes to character and morals.....yes we joke on this list allot > >>>>> including sexual ones....but I have never read anything on this list > >>>>> about thinking its okay to grope women because you are rich or a > >>>>> celebrity...or worse call one of you daughters voluptuous ...NBC > >>>>> suspended Billy Bush but only after extreme pressure from social > >>>>> media....Chump says he uses it and in the end the media is what > >>>>> will do > >>>>> him in....Listen carefully..THIS IS NO FUCKING REALITY SHOW YOU MORON > >>>>> TRUMP!!! I know those who approve of him will stay loyal up to the > >>>>> election....Like I said before and I say it again...It reminds of > >>>>> Hitlers followers....they knew it was wrong but didn't give a > >>>>> shit....sorry muchachos, that Make America Great Again dream will not > >>>>> ever be back again, keeping kicking the sleeping giant.....too many > of > >>>>> us are educated now and we can vote....as much as you want to change > >>>>> voting laws to keep us out, it will not work......lets see how it > >>>>> plays > >>>>> out on November 8th.... > >>>>> Jaime Solorza > >>>>> Wireless Systems Architect > >>>>> 915-861-1390 <%28915%29%20861-1390> > >>>>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Wireless Administrator > >>>>> <wirel...@htn.net> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> MUCH HAS CHANGED ABOUT POLITICS OVER THE YEARS.____ > >>>>> > >>>>> ____ > >>>>> > >>>>> ____ > >>>>> > >>>>> *“My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for > >>>>> you, ask > >>>>> what you can do for your country.”____* > >>>>> > >>>>> *____* > >>>>> > >>>>> ____ > >>>>> > >>>>> AND THOSE ARE THE WORDS OF A DOEMCRAT ! > >>>>> > >>>>> ____ > >>>>> > >>>>> ____ > >>>>> > >>>>> AND NOW WE HAVE A NATIONAL DEBT OF:____ > >>>>> > >>>>> ____ > >>>>> > >>>>> *$19,493,291,113,808____* > >>>>> > >>>>> *____* > >>>>> > >>>>> It’s hard for me to believe that ANY of the other issues matter. > >>>>> I’m not afraid of a president that might hurt someone’s > >>>>> feelings on > >>>>> the way to fixing the mess we’re in. ____ > >>>>> > >>>>> ____ > >>>>> > >>>>> Steve B.____ > >>>>> > >>>>> ____ > >>>>> > >>>>> ____ > >>>>> > >>>>> ____ > >>>>> > >>> > > > > > > > >
