I don't even care so much about the AP cost. The SM is still a killer. Especially in Canada when it's $400 capped to 10Mb? Come on.
On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 12:43 PM, Bill Prince <[email protected]> wrote: > But with that one PMP450M AP, you'll use only one channel. Define > expensive. Expensive money-wise? Sure. Expensive spectrum-wise? Quite the > opposite. > > > bp > <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> > > > On 11/2/2016 8:53 AM, Stefan Englhardt wrote: > > A sector Rocket AC Prism with AC Sector Antenna is $350. Nanobeam AC 19 > is $70. > > Loading Sector with 20 Users you are at $1750 for AP and CPEs. (With > Litebeam CPEs you’re even cheaper). > > > > With used PMP450 you are at $4950 with limited CPEs. > > > > UBNT AC does TDMA (Mimosa does not) both do no GPS Sync (Dont know who > does when but this is how it is now). > > > > With UBNT AC you can dare to do 20 CPEs / AP and will see very good > results. I would not scale it to > 30 now but looking at the price of APs > this is not neccesary. As it is .ac it might get an 802.11ax upgrade in the > future. UBNT-802.11n products have an upgradepath which might not be > perfect but it is not dead end like PMP320/FSK. > > > > So yes PMP450 is expensive. > > > > > > > > *Von:* Af [mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]>] *Im > Auftrag von *Kurt Fankhauser > *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 2. November 2016 15:38 > *An:* [email protected] > *Betreff:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m > > > > I can buy a used PMP450 AP for $1200.00. Add KP Omni for $250 so > $1,400.00. The mimosa A5-18 Omni lists for $999.00 so the PMP450 is not > that much more. I've seen used 450 SM's go for $175 for 20mbps ones. I > think the Jury is still out on how well the Mimosa is going to scale. It > probably will take years before we know for sure. I definitely would deploy > Mimosa over UBNT AC right now. Sounds like Mimosa will have sync and > anything without sync these days is basically un-scalable. > > > > Now on the PMP450 being expensive, yes if you add up the initial expenses > upfront costs are more. But you really have an asset with the 450 because > it holds re-sale value very well compared to 802.11 radios. I just sold > some old FSK SM's over the weekend for 35% of what i paid for them 10 years > ago. Assuming the 450 will still have 50-60% of its value 5 years form now, > and the ability to re-coup that money out of the equipment, does it really > costs more? I think factoring the re-sale value down the road that it costs > less.... > > > > On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Mike Hammett <[email protected]> wrote: > > For sure frame utilization is important. My thoughts are that if you're > loading up that many clients on an AP, maybe you ought to be offering > faster plans or removing other restrictions instead of loading up more on > an AP. > > Then again, I don't deploy 450, so I don't have high AP costs to be > worried about. > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> > [image: http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png] > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[image: > http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png] > <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[image: > http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png] > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[image: > http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png] <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> > [image: http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png] > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[image: > http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png] > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>[image: > http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png] > <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> > [image: http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png] > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>[image: > http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png] > > > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > ------------------------------ > > *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" <[email protected]> > *To: *[email protected] > *Sent: *Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:13:06 AM > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m > > As long as your downlink and uplink frame utilization is not maxing out on > the 450 you can definitely load 100 subs on an AP. With the 30mhz channel > width and soon to be 40mhz channel width option with the 450 that will just > help get more subs on per AP. I personally have had 50 subs on an old FSK > 2.4AP as recent as 1 year ago. that AP was capping out at 10mbps on the > downlink side. I have no doubt that with a 40mhz channel width 450 AP which > would net about 175-200mbps downlink on average depending on how many subs > you have running 6x-8x connections and how busy they are that you could > easily fit 100+subs on that AP. With Medusa and the ability to push > 300-400mbps per AP I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing some people > get close to 200 subs on a single AP. Its all about % of frame unitization. > > > > Now my next question, is Medusa considered Beam Forming? Wasn't the FCC > originally going to allow higher EIRP on "Smart Antennas." Isn't the Medusa > about the most smartest AP/Antenna you can get? Just think if the FCC > allowed a little more power on the Medusa how much more clients you could > get because the range would be better. > > > > On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 7:13 AM, Mike Hammett <[email protected]> wrote: > > I wouldn't load 100 subs onto any platform out there. There's just not > enough capacity on any of them. > > Same frequency. Technology is how they do it. Tons of stuff out there on > how beamforming and mu-MIMO works. > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> > [image: http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png] > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[image: > http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png] > <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[image: > http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png] > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[image: > http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png] <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> > [image: http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png] > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[image: > http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png] > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>[image: > http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png] > <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> > [image: http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png] > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>[image: > http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png] > > > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > ------------------------------ > > *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" <[email protected]> > *To: *[email protected] > *Sent: *Tuesday, November 1, 2016 9:05:18 PM > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m > > Cambium will never lower SM price until a competitor brings another > solution to market that you could also load 100subs on and not have the > thing choke. Hopefully Airfiber PTMP will be that. Also what I don't > understand about Medusa, since it has a bunch of smaller sectors inside of > it,, is the sectors inside of it running ABABABAB frequency re-use? Why is > the SM's not getting interference from the adjacent array if they are all > operating on same 20mhz frequency? > > > > On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 9:09 PM, George Skorup <[email protected]> wrote: > > Update all SMs on the sector to 15.0.0.1. Hang 450m. Shut off 450 sector > and turn 450m on. Collect stats and share. :) > > Don't have high expectations if you have a high concentration of SMs in > one direction. But you should really see a difference where they're fairly > spread out over 60-90 degrees. Remember it's 7x 13-degree beams and > tweaking the azimuth just a little bit may help balance things out. > > On 11/1/2016 1:58 PM, SmarterBroadband wrote: > > That is 100% why I want to use it.� We have an overloaded AP and no new > frequency.� A 3x performance boost will solve the problem.� I also hope > the 17 degree beams will reduce interference seen by the AP. > > � > > *From:* Af [mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]>] *On > Behalf Of *George Skorup > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:30 AM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m > > � > > The data that Matt showed us at HQ a few weeks ago where an operator (not > in the US) with over 100 SMs! on a single 450 sector proved that a > performance boost of 3-3.5x is possible simply by swapping to a 450m > sector. And that's still using only that single 20MHz channel in 90 > degrees. They created this thing for a reason. And that right there is it. > Nuckin futs. > > On 11/1/2016 9:17 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: > > Rise Broadband.... > > ? > > � > > *From:* Matt Mangriotis > > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:08 AM > > *To:* [email protected] > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m > > � > > I will say that we have a [very large] customer that will remain nameless, > which has ~1100 active customers across more than 12 sectors of 450m.� > They are very pleased with the performance. > > � > > There are several others that are putting up their first sectors now as > well.� If you run into issues, we are escalating support cases to our > team that has a lot of experience in deploying this model. > > � > > Matt > > � > > *From:* Af [mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]>] *On > Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof > *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 8:34 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m > > � > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphonse_and_Gaston#/media/Fil > e:Alphonsegaston.jpg > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAlphonse_and_Gaston%23%2Fmedia%2FFile%3AAlphonsegaston.jpg&data=01%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7Cbe305b2cb945442e3cad08d401f726bf%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C1&sdata=KVm6mRWBg3SiYCVBHxQYPrJliSwuQdAP2VPMOG5mGJo%3D&reserved=0> > > � > > � > > *From:* Af [mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]>] *On > Behalf Of *SmarterBroadband > *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 7:39 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* [AFMUG] Cambium 450m > > � > > Our first 450m should arrive this week.� We plan to replace an existing > 450 AP that has 66 customers for our first deployment. > > � > > However, I do not want to do this until I have heard that there are some > installed and working. > > � > > Does anyone have 450m up and running.� Would you please share your > experiences and results. > > � > > Thanks > > � > > Adam > > � > > � > > � > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
