Nice and thorough Ken. Ubiquiti always seems a bit thin in the UI department for diagnostic info. I hate having multiple vendors for backhauls.
On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 10:27 AM Chuck McCown <[email protected]> wrote: > I don’t expect rain fade at 11 GHz but I am in Utah. > > *From:* Ken Hohhof > *Sent:* Saturday, November 19, 2016 9:17 AM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First? > > > Some random thoughts on AF-11x: > > > > 1) Traditionally a licensed backhaul vendor has been expected to have a > complete line which for FCC means 6, 11, 18, 23 GHz. When Ubiquiti or > Mimosa chooses to cherry pick 11 GHz, it’s like a convenience store that > doesn’t carry everything you need to stock your refrigerator, just milk and > bread. You will need 2 vendors unless you never have short or long links, > or areas where you can’t coordinate an 11 GHz link. > > > > 2) I assume these are OFDM like the other AFx radios? It’s not obvious > what performance advantages OFDM brings to this application, and it does > add overhead for things like cyclic prefix and pilot tones, as well as > latency and peak/avg ratio issues. It may have implementation advantages, > but traditionally licensed radios have valued performance over everything > else. > > > > 3) I have several AF-5x links and I like them, the software is kind of > barebones though. I’m always surprised when I look for something in the > stats or logs and find it isn’t monitored. You’d think software would be a > strength for them. Mimosa seems more creative, and even a 10 year old > Orthogon radio has more monitoring and troubleshooting tools. I guess > software is something that can improve over time, although the AFx firmware > doesn’t seem to get many updates. > > > > 4) With licensed links we are more likely to be putting them on > commercial towers where we may be collocated with the big guys. Commercial > tower owners are starting to insist on attention to low PIM (passive > intermod). N connectors and coax jumpers would seem to invite PIM problems > more than a slip-fit waveguide connection to the antenna. > > > > 5) RF performance of most licensed radios is per specs. Where the > problems occur is often features like ACM, data buffers, etc. If you are > using 11 GHz, you are probably expecting rain fades. How well has the > vendor implemented adaptive coding and modulation, is it truly hitless, > does it use the max xmt power at each modulation, etc. > > > > 6) Always pay close attention to xmt power at each modulation. The > headline specs fors some radio may say 4096QAM and 26 dBm xmt power, but as > you look at the detailed specs, the xmt power at 4096QAM may be 21 dBm, and > you may not get that 26 dBm at anything over 64QAM. I would imagine this > is especially important with an OFDM radio, since high modulation OFDM > tends to have a high peak/avg ratio, requiring more headroom in the power > amp. > > > > 7) The choice of coax connectors means you can easily extend the distance > from radio to antenna, but you probably won’t due to coax loss. Most > licensed radios have all sorts of adapter options for remote mounts and > waveguide, which is more expensive than coax but higher performance. > > > > > > *From:* Af [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Josh Reynolds > *Sent:* Saturday, November 19, 2016 9:10 AM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First? > > > > If they were really that out of touch given the context of the world > market, they wouldn't have product lines doubling in net revenue quarter > over quarter. > > > > On Nov 19, 2016 7:27 AM, "Mike Hammett" <[email protected]> wrote: > > Yeah, but they have a fundamental problem. Company-wide they are out of > touch with their customers and what they need as well as what the rest of > the market offers. > > Examples: > > Still no SFPs on radios. > AF11 has a channel width from the 2000s. > AF11 isn't nearly as spectrally efficient as they think it is. > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> > <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> > <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> > > > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > > ------------------------------ > > *From: *"Josh Reynolds" <[email protected]> > > > *To: *[email protected] > *Sent: *Friday, November 18, 2016 10:14:45 PM > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First? > > I know of a company that already has 8 links deployed that they replaced > existing radios with. > > They built their own radio core. (Second time for UBNT, if you count > Invictus core and then this one... Not counting the ones they made before > UBNT.) > > You underestimate them a lot. They're making more money across the board > and investing even more money in R&D and labor than they ever have. The > past few years they've made major internal changes, and things are just now > starting to bare fruit from those decisions. > > They also have a huge cash reserve, and it wouldn't surprise me at all for > them to start making acquisitions if they choose to. > > On Nov 18, 2016 9:50 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" < > [email protected]> wrote: > > this isnt my usual asshole distrust of UBNT, I know UBNT chuck is behind > it, so its solid gear, but are people really ready to put their faith in > the limited and $$ spectrum on UBNT? > > On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 6:18 PM, Josh Reynolds <[email protected]> > wrote: > > They are designing for a lot of different mounting options, but they have > to hit the ones that are the easiest sells out the gate. > > Stay tuned. > > > > On Nov 18, 2016 5:44 PM, "George Skorup" <[email protected]> wrote: > > We have RadioWaves HP2 and HP3s' in a couple flavors. HPx-11R, Remec round > for Trango ApexPlus and HPx-11EX, for Exalt G2. Then we have Trango > AD11G2-S2's and 3-S2's for ApexPlus, Remec round. So obviously we wouldn't > be able to do the feedhorn swap on those. > > The RadioWaves 11EX are single-pol only, so those would need the feedhorn > swapped. But the 11R is where it makes sense for the Remec adapter plate, > especially in the case of the Trango dishes. > > So for me it would come down to $250-300? for the adapter plate vs $400? > for a new RW feedhorn vs $1k for a whole new dish. > > This would probably be half as difficult if UBNT would've designed for > waveguide, IMO. > > On 11/18/2016 2:13 PM, Brad Belton wrote: > > Right, I see the RadioWaves DP N-Type feed, but we�re looking/hoping > someone comes out with a REMEC round to DP N-Type adapter.� > > � > > Quicker, cheaper than replacing the feed horn and could be used on any > antenna with a REMEC round feed horn�not just a RadioWaves antenna. > > � > > Brad > > � > > *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On > Behalf Of *Mike Hammett > *Sent:* Friday, November 18, 2016 2:08 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First? > > � > > Non-UBNT licensed dish to N connectors and radio mount. > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> > <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> > <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > ------------------------------ > > *From: *"Brad Belton" <[email protected]> > *To: *[email protected] > *Sent: *Friday, November 18, 2016 2:06:47 PM > *Subject: *Re: [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First? > > So, what are we looking for?� SFP port? > > � > > I don�t see any REMEC round to dual polarity N-Type adapters in your > pictures!� <grin> > > � > > Brad > > � > > *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On > Behalf Of *Mike Hammett > *Sent:* Friday, November 18, 2016 2:02 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First? > > � > > > https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/photos/a.997555730369879.1073741834.186874744771319/997557797036339/?type=3&theater > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> > <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> > <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > ------------------------------ > > *From: *"Brad Belton" <[email protected]> > *To: *[email protected] > *Sent: *Friday, November 18, 2016 10:09:25 AM > *Subject: *Re: [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First? > > You'll need to order a new feed horn for your RadioWaves antenna. �I > don't > have the SKUs yet, but I'm hearing they might be shipping by end of the > month or early next. �They are basically a standard dual polarity N-Type > feed horn except the feed horn "kit" also comes with a UBNT specific > mounting bracket for the radio. > > I wish there was a REMEC round to dual polarity N-Type adapter available. > Sure would be easier than a feed horn swap...and likely less expensive too. > I've got a call into Pasternack to see if such an adapter is even feasible. > I'm thinking it is, but would depend on demand. > > Brad > > � > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf > Of Keefe John > Sent: Friday, November 18, 2016 9:59 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First? > > What was on the dish you had before? �Can I make these work on a a > Radiowaves Dragonwave dish? > > > On 11/17/2016 8:54 PM, Brad Belton wrote: > > DoubleRadius should have them. �Our AF-11X order filled, but waiting on > new > > RadioWaves dual polarity feed horns before they can be put to use. > > > > Brad > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf > > Of Keefe John > > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 7:17 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First? > > > > Which distributors will have AF-11X first? �Does anyone have ETAs? > > > > Keefe > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Members mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/members > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Members mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/members > > _______________________________________________ > Members mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/members > > _______________________________________________ > Members mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/members > > � > > > _______________________________________________ > Members mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/members > > � > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Members mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/members > > > > > > > > -- > > If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team > as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team. > >
