I don’t expect rain fade at 11 GHz but I am in Utah.
*From:* Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Saturday, November 19, 2016 9:17 AM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First?
Some random thoughts on AF-11x:
1) Traditionally a licensed backhaul vendor has been expected to have
a complete line which for FCC means 6, 11, 18, 23 GHz. When Ubiquiti
or Mimosa chooses to cherry pick 11 GHz, it’s like a convenience store
that doesn’t carry everything you need to stock your refrigerator,
just milk and bread. You will need 2 vendors unless you never have
short or long links, or areas where you can’t coordinate an 11 GHz link.
2) I assume these are OFDM like the other AFx radios? It’s not
obvious what performance advantages OFDM brings to this application,
and it does add overhead for things like cyclic prefix and pilot
tones, as well as latency and peak/avg ratio issues. It may have
implementation advantages, but traditionally licensed radios have
valued performance over everything else.
3) I have several AF-5x links and I like them, the software is kind
of barebones though. I’m always surprised when I look for something
in the stats or logs and find it isn’t monitored. You’d think
software would be a strength for them. Mimosa seems more creative,
and even a 10 year old Orthogon radio has more monitoring and
troubleshooting tools. I guess software is something that can improve
over time, although the AFx firmware doesn’t seem to get many updates.
4) With licensed links we are more likely to be putting them on
commercial towers where we may be collocated with the big guys.
Commercial tower owners are starting to insist on attention to low PIM
(passive intermod). N connectors and coax jumpers would seem to
invite PIM problems more than a slip-fit waveguide connection to the
antenna.
5) RF performance of most licensed radios is per specs. Where the
problems occur is often features like ACM, data buffers, etc. If you
are using 11 GHz, you are probably expecting rain fades. How well has
the vendor implemented adaptive coding and modulation, is it truly
hitless, does it use the max xmt power at each modulation, etc.
6) Always pay close attention to xmt power at each modulation. The
headline specs fors some radio may say 4096QAM and 26 dBm xmt power,
but as you look at the detailed specs, the xmt power at 4096QAM may be
21 dBm, and you may not get that 26 dBm at anything over 64QAM. I
would imagine this is especially important with an OFDM radio, since
high modulation OFDM tends to have a high peak/avg ratio, requiring
more headroom in the power amp.
7) The choice of coax connectors means you can easily extend the
distance from radio to antenna, but you probably won’t due to coax
loss. Most licensed radios have all sorts of adapter options for
remote mounts and waveguide, which is more expensive than coax but
higher performance.
*From:*Af [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Josh Reynolds
*Sent:* Saturday, November 19, 2016 9:10 AM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First?
If they were really that out of touch given the context of the world
market, they wouldn't have product lines doubling in net revenue
quarter over quarter.
On Nov 19, 2016 7:27 AM, "Mike Hammett" <[email protected]> wrote:
Yeah, but they have a fundamental problem. Company-wide they are out
of touch with their customers and what they need as well as what the
rest of the market offers.
Examples:
Still no SFPs on radios.
AF11 has a channel width from the 2000s.
AF11 isn't nearly as spectrally efficient as they think it is.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Josh Reynolds" <[email protected]>
*To: *[email protected]
*Sent: *Friday, November 18, 2016 10:14:45 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First?
I know of a company that already has 8 links deployed that they
replaced existing radios with.
They built their own radio core. (Second time for UBNT, if you count
Invictus core and then this one... Not counting the ones they made
before UBNT.)
You underestimate them a lot. They're making more money across the
board and investing even more money in R&D and labor than they ever
have. The past few years they've made major internal changes, and
things are just now starting to bare fruit from those decisions.
They also have a huge cash reserve, and it wouldn't surprise me at all
for them to start making acquisitions if they choose to.
On Nov 18, 2016 9:50 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm"
<[email protected]> wrote:
this isnt my usual asshole distrust of UBNT, I know UBNT chuck is
behind it, so its solid gear, but are people really ready to put
their faith in the limited and $$ spectrum on UBNT?
On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 6:18 PM, Josh Reynolds
<[email protected]> wrote:
They are designing for a lot of different mounting options,
but they have to hit the ones that are the easiest sells out
the gate.
Stay tuned.
On Nov 18, 2016 5:44 PM, "George Skorup" <[email protected]>
wrote:
We have RadioWaves HP2 and HP3s' in a couple flavors.
HPx-11R, Remec round for Trango ApexPlus and HPx-11EX, for
Exalt G2. Then we have Trango AD11G2-S2's and 3-S2's for
ApexPlus, Remec round. So obviously we wouldn't be able to
do the feedhorn swap on those.
The RadioWaves 11EX are single-pol only, so those would
need the feedhorn swapped. But the 11R is where it makes
sense for the Remec adapter plate, especially in the case
of the Trango dishes.
So for me it would come down to $250-300? for the adapter
plate vs $400? for a new RW feedhorn vs $1k for a whole
new dish.
This would probably be half as difficult if UBNT would've
designed for waveguide, IMO.
On 11/18/2016 2:13 PM, Brad Belton wrote:
Right, I see the RadioWaves DP N-Type feed, but
we�re looking/hoping someone comes out with a REMEC
round to DP N-Type adapter.�
�
Quicker, cheaper than replacing the feed horn and
could be used on any antenna with a REMEC round feed
horn�not just a RadioWaves antenna.
�
Brad
�
*From:*[email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Mike
Hammett
*Sent:* Friday, November 18, 2016 2:08 PM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First?
�
Non-UBNT licensed dish to N connectors and radio mount.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp><https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Brad Belton" <[email protected]>
*To: *[email protected]
*Sent: *Friday, November 18, 2016 2:06:47 PM
*Subject: *Re: [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First?
So, what are we looking for?� SFP port?
�
I don�t see any REMEC round to dual polarity N-Type
adapters in your pictures!� <grin>
�
Brad
�
*From:*[email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Mike
Hammett
*Sent:* Friday, November 18, 2016 2:02 PM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First?
�
https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/photos/a.997555730369879.1073741834.186874744771319/997557797036339/?type=3&theater
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp><https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Brad Belton" <[email protected]>
*To: *[email protected]
*Sent: *Friday, November 18, 2016 10:09:25 AM
*Subject: *Re: [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First?
You'll need to order a new feed horn for your
RadioWaves antenna. �I don't
have the SKUs yet, but I'm hearing they might be
shipping by end of the
month or early next. �They are basically a standard
dual polarity N-Type
feed horn except the feed horn "kit" also comes with a
UBNT specific
mounting bracket for the radio.
I wish there was a REMEC round to dual polarity N-Type
adapter available.
Sure would be easier than a feed horn swap...and
likely less expensive too.
I've got a call into Pasternack to see if such an
adapter is even feasible.
I'm thinking it is, but would depend on demand.
Brad
�
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Keefe John
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2016 9:59 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First?
What was on the dish you had before? �Can I make
these work on a a
Radiowaves Dragonwave dish?
On 11/17/2016 8:54 PM, Brad Belton wrote:
> DoubleRadius should have them. �Our AF-11X order
filled, but waiting on
new
> RadioWaves dual polarity feed horns before they can
be put to use.
>
> Brad
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf
> Of Keefe John
> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 7:17 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First?
>
> Which distributors will have AF-11X first? �Does
anyone have ETAs?
>
> Keefe
>
> _______________________________________________
> Members mailing list
> [email protected]
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>
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�
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�
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