we have actually seen this happen where the the airport will go into bridge mode and we hand out real ips to everyone. we do dhcp snoop and limit clients to 3 dhcp address for the purpose of people plugging in and out. What this has caused tho is people believe there airport is working correctly and once that 4th device tries to come online and we don't allow a 4th dhcp we start getting calls. Just ran a report we have about 20 trouble tickets on this issue in the last 2 years.
Carlos Alcantar Race Communications / Race Team Member 1325 Howard Ave. #604, Burlingame, CA. 94010 Phone: +1 415 376 3314 / [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> / http://www.race.com<http://www.race.com/> ________________________________ From: Af <[email protected]> on behalf of Mike Hammett <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 9:45:43 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Apple abandoning development of wireless routers Handing out RFC1918 addresses A) Is using that address space incorrectly and B) Fools routers that think you are using the address space correctly. RFC6598 space is what you should be using if you're not handing out public IPs to customers. SM NAT would be fine with RFC1918. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/> [http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> Midwest Internet Exchange<http://www.midwest-ix.com/> [http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> The Brothers WISP<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> [http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png] <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> ________________________________ From: "Ken Hohhof" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 11:40:21 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Apple abandoning development of wireless routers Newer Netgear routers typically detect they are behind another router, and offer during setup to go into Wireless AP mode (basically bridging), with a different management IP than the default 192.168.1. I actually find this useful, since it’s hard to find a WAP anymore, and usually when you use a router as a WAP you end up not using the “Internet” port but the customer will eventually end up moving the cable to that port because your installer obviously hooked it up wrong. I’m not sure I understand the criticism of handing out an RFC1918 address. In part of our network, we hand out typically 192.168.100.2 from the SM and make it the DMZ address, with the intent that the customer’s router get that address. If the router decides to be a bridge, that won’t work. Now that I think about it, AFAIK that doesn’t trigger Netgears to enter WAP mode, so they must be using something more than just RFC1918 address to detect they are behind another NAT router. Not sure about that. From: Af [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 11:28 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Apple abandoning development of wireless routers The irritant was that routers from D-Link, Linksys, Netgear, etc. would handle this without intervention. Airports always forced some kind of intervention. bp <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> On 11/28/2016 9:18 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: Yeah, the Airport should have detected the change (at least after a reboot) from bridge to router and changed accordingly. As you point out, it sounds like your PtMP vendor shares some of the blame as well. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/> [http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> Midwest Internet Exchange<http://www.midwest-ix.com/> [http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> The Brothers WISP<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> [http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png] <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> ________________________________ From: "Bill Prince" <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 11:16:29 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Apple abandoning development of wireless routers A confluence of bugs perhaps. We usually run our SMs in NAT mode. When the airport discovers that it's getting NATted, it would default to bridge mode. This would typically overwhelm the SM's admittedly poor NAT overflow algorithm. Then for a number of reasons, we would have to switch the SM into bridge mode to handle VPN, or VoIP, or a femtocell, or whatever. The airport would stay in bridge mode, and we would end up with an additional public IPs being served from the local pool. Depending on the situation, it would overflow the local IP pool, or just be an irritant. bp <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> On 11/28/2016 8:36 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: "(3) They would usually default to bridge mode, and saturate the local DHCP pool" Is this because you're not IPing your network properly? Usually this only happens if you're handing client RFC1918 addresses in which case bridging is appropriate behavior for the router. The rest I'd say are valid complaints. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/> [http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> Midwest Internet Exchange<http://www.midwest-ix.com/> [http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> The Brothers WISP<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> [http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png] <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> ________________________________ From: "Bill Prince" <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 10:32:09 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Apple abandoning development of wireless routers The biggest issues for me was that (1) they were constantly changing the UI of their proprietary "airport admin" tool, (2) The Windows version was always a few revs behind (or would not work), (3) They would usually default to bridge mode, and saturate the local DHCP pool, (4) would not allow simple adjustments to channel frequencies, (5) their admin tool was proprietary, and not just a simple web server. There are probably another half dozen or so issues that I'm not recalling now. bp <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> On 11/28/2016 8:13 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: I know some WISP's beef with them was because the WISP wasn't properly IPing their network. What other concerns are there? ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/> [http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> Midwest Internet Exchange<http://www.midwest-ix.com/> [http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> The Brothers WISP<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> [http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png] <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> ________________________________ From: "Bill Prince" <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> To: "Motorola III" <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 10:07:21 AM Subject: [AFMUG] OT: Apple abandoning development of wireless routers Finally! There routers have caused more than their fair share of support calls. I say good riddance. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-21/apple-said-to-abandon-development-of-wireless-routers-ivs0ssec -- bp <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
