Good point, the number of cycles would probably make lead acid impractical. I'm not sure if salt water would better there or not. They could very well be something like pumped hydro though and not using batteries at all.
On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 11:20 AM, Harold Bledsoe <[email protected]> wrote: > The article is light on those facts. I don't think lead acid can hit > these numbers though. I'd guess 1500 cycles at 80% DOD optimistically. So > you'd need to replace it 4-5 times over 20 years. Even at $100/KWH battery > cost for lead acid, it blows up to $400-500 over 20 years. That's 7+ cents > cost. > > Maybe pumped hydro or something more like that? > > On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 11:53 AM Mathew Howard <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Yeah, but why would they be using that kind of batteries? It seems to me >> that something like the salt water batteries, or even some variant of lead >> acid would be a lot more practical for this kind of thing... assuming >> they're using batteries at all. >> >> On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 10:34 AM, Rory Conaway <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> I thought the $230 was just the manufacturing cost, not including the >>> capital costs. For example, the 60KWH battery in the Bolt costs between >>> $13000 and $13900 depending on the article. >>> >>> The real problem with most of the batteries is that you have to know >>> what percentage of charge is part of the equation. For example, the Leaf >>> original battery was probably something like 800 charges with 80% of the >>> battery storage still there. Tesla is advertising much longer life and >>> supposedly has 95% of the battery life after 8 years and something like >>> 2000 charges. But the reality is we don’t know how many extra cells are in >>> a Tesla battery pack to maintain that illusion. If they added 5% more >>> cells than the rated charge, maybe they just bring them into the folod to >>> make it look like the battery isn’t getting older (I kind of suspected that >>> and GM confirmed they are doing the same thing also with the Bolt). The >>> catch with all these numbers is how much of the battery gets charged to >>> maximum life and how partial charges factor in. >>> >>> With our Leaf, we always charged to 100% and lost 2 of the 12 cells >>> within 45,000 miles. Tesla recommends only 80% charges since full charges >>> seem to shorten battery life. GM was keeping the Volt battery between 30% >>> and 80% to maximum life. >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Af [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Harold Bledsoe >>> *Sent:* Monday, June 5, 2017 7:43 AM >>> *To:* [email protected] >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] This Is the Biggest News in Electricity Since >>> the LightBulb -- Seriously >>> >>> >>> >>> I don't think this is the right comparison unit. $230 is the capital, >>> up-front cost per KWH for the car. 4.5 cents would be some kind of 20 year >>> operational usage cost. It still seems hard to make money at that price >>> though. How many cycles can you get from a Li car battery? >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 2:11 AM Rory Conaway <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Considering that battery costs right now are at $230 per KWH for >>> electric cars, I’m kind of not buying that. >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Af [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince >>> *Sent:* Sunday, June 4, 2017 11:08 PM >>> *To:* [email protected] >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] This Is the Biggest News in Electricity Since >>> the LightBulb -- Seriously >>> >>> >>> >>> The monumental breakthrough is the cost per KWH. They're saying 4.5 >>> cents per KWH. That is a big deal. >>> >>> bp >>> >>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 6/4/2017 1:25 PM, Jeremy wrote: >>> >>> Apparently 'solar-plus' is just the process of storing energy in large >>> banks of batteries and then using it during peak hours when energy costs >>> more. I am not finding the monumental breakthrough here.... >>> >>> >>> >>> On Jun 4, 2017 10:11 AM, "Bill Prince" <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> I heard about these giant rubber bands... >>> >>> >>> >>> bp >>> >>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 6/3/2017 7:00 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: >>> >>> It doesn’t say how they are storing the energy. >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Jaime Solorza >>> >>> *Sent:* Saturday, June 03, 2017 3:20 PM >>> >>> *To:* Animal Farm >>> >>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] This Is the Biggest News in Electricity Since the >>> LightBulb -- Seriously >>> >>> >>> >>> https://news.google.com/news/amp?caurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww. >>> fool.com%2Finvesting%2F2017%2F06%2F03%2Fthis-is-the- >>> biggest-news-in-electricity-since-the.aspx#pt0-845273 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>
