Reports on NPR is that there were both full auto as well as "conversions" in the assortment of 23-some-odd weapons found in the room.

bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/3/2017 1:28 AM, George Skorup wrote:
I think we might possibly be overthinking this whole full auto narrative that the media is pushing. Just watched a video that someone shot from near the base of the hotel. The video is from an NSFW site that a friend sent me. I'll post the link if you guys want. It sounds like this fuckwit is using an external rotary trigger device. Think gatling gun. You can hear the cyclic rate change. That's not something a full auto does. Probably his trigger masturbation hand getting tired. Fucking piece of shit. Sorry for that. I'm going back to bed.

On 10/2/2017 11:05 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
After some thought on the whole 'could tougher gun control have prevented this tragedy' topic, I've sort of come to the conclusion that with one possible exception, there really isn't anything which would have made much of a difference.

Assuming that the shooter has a perfectly clean record (he did), you have to look at what restrictions you're willing to put on recreational gun owners.  In every case I've thought of (restricting total number of guns, restricting ammo purchases, etc.), it seems based on the information we have that this attack could have been carried out with access to the exact same arsenal that a recreational gun user should have access to.   (Assuming one buys into the belief that there should be recreational gun users - let's NOT go down that path, since that would definitely end up leading to somewhere we don't want to go on this list).

The only possible additional restriction I can see which may have helped is further restricting devices designed to effectively convert non-automatic weapons to automatic functions.  I find it irrational that one would restrict automatic weapons, but would not apply similar restrictions to "conversion" products.     On the other hand, I can think of dozens of ways to modify a semi-automatic to automatic functions, many of which made easier to accomplish with the prevalence of 3d printing.

Which leads me to the belief that we need to go deeper into the cause here.   Access to guns is not the problem. Having people who want to use guns (or other weapons) in this way is the problem - the question is how do we solve that one?

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 7:39 PM, George Skorup <george.sko...@cbcast.com <mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:

    We have the FOID in IL. You cannot buy or transport firearms or
    ammo without your card on you. Our CCL is a completely separate
    card, and yep, you gotta have both on you to carry.
    Our waiting periods are 1 day for long guns, 3 days for hand
    guns. Our 4473s/background checks are ran through both the IL
    State Police and NICS.

    So no, it is not "easy" to buy guns legally for the law-abiding here.

    None of this stops the gang bangers from getting guns. Nor the
    quiet nut jobs.

    On 10/2/2017 6:05 PM, Jason Wilson wrote:
    I need to clarify my last message. in California we have the
    pleasure of waiting 10 days before we can pick up the firearms
    that we purchased. in the state of Nevada there is no waiting
    period and they can be purchased over the counter

    On Oct 2, 2017 3:26 PM, "Carl Peterson"
    <cpeter...@portnetworks.com <mailto:cpeter...@portnetworks.com>>
    wrote:

        How on earth does someone buy that many guns and that much
        ammo without setting off all sorts of sirens?  You would
        think ATF would have some sort of triggers set for when
        someone buys a bunch of guns and ammo.

        On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 6:06 PM, Jaime Solorza
        <losguyswirel...@gmail.com
        <mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:

            59 dead, 527 injured,. 18 more guns found at one home
            with thousands of rounds plus electronics of some kind.

            On Oct 2, 2017 1:30 PM, "George Skorup"
            <george.sko...@cbcast.com
            <mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:

                s/clip/magazine

                Sorry Bill, had to.

                On 10/2/2017 12:34 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

                Based on what I heard (so far), it had to take many
                minutes; maybe 15 or 20 or so. From the sound, you
                could hear what sounded like automatic weapon fire
                going and going until the clip was empty (and it
                sounded like a big clip). Then there was a brief
                pause (people on the scene described it as "30
                seconds"), then another round with another clip.
                There were at least 6 or 7 clips.

                There are probably eye witness errors in the above
                description, but if it's even close to correct, it
                is pretty scary.


                bp
                <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

                On 10/2/2017 10:08 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:

                How long did this event last?
                From the time he started shooting how long until
                police found him and he killed himself ?

                Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

                ----- Reply message -----
                From: "Rory Conaway" <r...@triadwireless.net>
                <mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>
                To: "af@afmug.com" <mailto:af@afmug.com>
                <af@afmug.com> <mailto:af@afmug.com>
                Subject: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
                Date: Mon, Oct 2, 2017 11:59 AM

                I think the best thing to do is wait to see if the
                authorities can find a motive. I’ve got family up
                there in Law Enforcement but haven’t heard from
                them yet.

                Rory

                *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf
                Of *Adam Moffett
                *Sent:* Monday, October 2, 2017 9:52 AM
                *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
                *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

                +1, let's please not get into a political fight.

                ------ Original Message ------

                From: "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com
                <mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>>

                To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>

                Sent: 10/2/2017 12:42:08 PM

                Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

                    While I won't get into gun politics I will say
                    there are a bunch of extremely fervent views
                    on the subject. All dearly felt with logical
                    reasons behind them. I am not sure the
                    opposing sides think the opposition's reasons
                    are valid. I think we can agree, without
                    political discussions, that crazy is crazy.
                    And while I hate to see this like everyone
                    else, I don't think most freedom loving people
                    would be willing to do what it takes to stop
                    all potentially crazy people from doing such
                    things.

                    I would hope to head off any political debates
                    on the list.

                    On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:30 AM Jeremy
                    <jeremysmi...@gmail.com
                    <mailto:jeremysmi...@gmail.com>> wrote:

                        I had never seen these bump stop devices.
                        It is hard to believe that they are legal,
                        and do not require a machine gun license. 
                        I expect that will not last.

                        On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Jaime
                        Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com
                        <mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:

                        Well crazy is crazy no matter what. I
                        don't care what allegiance they
                        claim..this was a massacre committed by a
                        fucked up person. People died for no good
                        reason.  As much heat as I will take for
                        this, easy access to guns has got to
                        change.  Fuck the politics.

                        On Oct 2, 2017 10:10 AM, "Cameron Crum"
                        <cc...@wispmon.com
                        <mailto:cc...@wispmon.com>> wrote:

                        Well that is some relief.

                        On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Robert
                        <i...@avantwireless.com
                        <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:

                            FBI says no...

                            On 10/2/17 9:09 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:

                                ISIS is claiming he was a recent
                                convert and they are responsible,
                                not verified yet, but if true is
                                pretty scary.

                                On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:04 AM,
                                Lewis Bergman
                                <lewis.berg...@gmail.com
                                <mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
                                <mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com
                                <mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>>>
                                wrote:

                                    I have never been asked any
                                questions coming in and out of Vegas
                                    hotels. There are so many
                                conventions they are used to
                                people who
                                    don't like storing all their
                                expensive gear in the conference room
                                    or whatever.

                                    On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:49
                                AM Steve Jones

                                    <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
                                <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
                                <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
                                <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>>
                                wrote:

                                        10 rifles and 10k rounds
                                isnt alot of real estate for travel
                                luggage transport

                                        On Oct 2, 2017 10:35 AM,
                                "Jaime Solorza"

                                <losguyswirel...@gmail.com
                                <mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
                                <mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com
                                <mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>>>


                                        wrote:

                                Bet you surveillance footage is
                                getting analyzed.  I am
                                aware guns can be disassembled to
                                fit in suitcase or travel
                                bags...but 10 guns if report is
                                accurate...wow.
                                            On Oct 2, 2017 9:06
                                AM, "Robert"
                                <i...@avantwireless.com
                                <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>

                                  <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com
                                <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>>>
                                wrote:

                                  Expect metal detectors going in
                                immediately...

                                  On 10/2/17 7:56 AM, Jay Weekley
                                wrote:

                                      I won't be surprised if
                                there were baggage checks at
                                      the casino.

                                      Mike Hammett wrote:

                                          It would be irrational
                                to change your plans, but
                                we're all just people.



                                -----
                                          Mike Hammett
                                Intelligent Computing Solutions
                                          <http://www.ics-il.com/>
                                         
                                <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL
                                <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>

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<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
                                         
                                
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions
                                
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>>><https://twitter.com/ICSIL
                                <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>


                                          <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>>
                                Midwest Internet Exchange
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<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>>><https://twitter.com/mdwestix


                                         
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                                <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
                                         
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                                <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>>>
                                         
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                                <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>

                                <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp
                                <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>>>


                                         
                                
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg
                                
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>


                                         
                                
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg
                                
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>>>
                                
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser"
                                         
                                <lists.wavel...@gmail.com
                                <mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>

                                <mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com
                                <mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>>>
                                          *To: *af@afmug.com
                                <mailto:af@afmug.com>
                                <mailto:af@afmug.com
                                <mailto:af@afmug.com>>


                                *Sent: *Monday, October 2, 2017
                                9:44:58 AM
                                *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass
                                Shooting

                                          I wonder if attendance
                                to the WISPA show will be
                                          down from this

                                          On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at
                                10:39 AM, Jay Weekley
                                         
                                <par...@cyberbroadband.net
                                <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>
                                <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net
                                <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>>

                                <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net
                                <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>


                                <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net
                                <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>>>>
                                wrote:

                                A week later and some of us may
                                have been
                                          at the concert.

                                Robert wrote:

                                         A best friend and his
                                brother were
                                there and had bullets
                                wizzing by him and hitting the ground
                                around him and had
                                people falling around him.

                                         On 10/2/17 4:12 AM, Josh
                                Reynolds wrote:

                                             I have a co-worker
                                who is there on
                                          a vacation for his
                                birthday until Wednesday. Haven't
                                heard from him yet.

                                On Oct 2, 2017 5:51 AM, "Forrest
                                Christian (List Account)"
                                <li...@packetflux.com
                                <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>
                                <mailto:li...@packetflux.com
                                <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>>
                                <mailto:li...@packetflux.com
                                <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>
                                <mailto:li...@packetflux.com
                                <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>>>
                                <mailto:li...@packetflux.com
                                <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>
                                <mailto:li...@packetflux.com
                                <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>>
                                <mailto:li...@packetflux.com
                                <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>
                                <mailto:li...@packetflux.com
                                <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>>>>>
                                wrote:

                                I'm not really even sure what
                                          to say.  This keeps
                                getting worse and
                                worse as more details come in.

                                A different festival on a
                                different night and I could
                                have been
                                among the crowd.  Makes it even
                                          more real.

                                -- *Forrest Christian*
                                /CEO//, PacketFlux
                                Technologies, Inc./
                                Tel: 406-449-3345 <tel:406-449-3345>

                                <tel:406-449-3345
                                <tel:406-449-3345>>
                                <tel:406-449-3345 <tel:406-449-3345>
                                <tel:406-449-3345
                                <tel:406-449-3345>>> | Address: 3577
                                         
                                
<https://maps.google.com/?q=3577+%0D+%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602&entry=gmail&source=g
                                
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                                Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
                                   
                                
<https://maps.google.com/?q=3577+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602&entry=gmail&source=g
                                
<https://maps.google.com/?q=3577+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602&entry=gmail&source=g>
                                         
                                
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                                forre...@imach.com
                                <mailto:forre...@imach.com>
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                                <mailto:forre...@imach.com
                                <mailto:forre...@imach.com>>>
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                                <mailto:forre...@imach.com>>
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                                <mailto:forre...@imach.com
                                <mailto:forre...@imach.com>>>> |
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--
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Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com <mailto:forre...@imach.com> | http://www.packetflux.com <http://www.packetflux.com/> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian> <http://facebook.com/packetflux> <http://twitter.com/@packetflux>




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