Rob,
This is a very insightful and knowledgeable reply and most of your coverage is spot-on on. But… Think of it when “databases” were first becoming pursued and popular. I don’t know, say 1990’ ish? What was a database then? And think of databases now, their realm of function, for example Firebase, NoSQL’s, Mongo, the graph database ecosystem with add-ons and extensions, SQL Server and R, whole development environments INSIDE the DB, etc.. A DBA then, like an accountant, and a DBA now… Blockchain, crypto-systems are not fixed immutable concepts like say web browsers. Though web browsers are a cornucopia of techno-functionality nowadays, bad example, say ring-buffers. Ring-buffers are a relatively fixed tool that solves some specific problems. Blockchain opens doors into other worlds basically. But you are right many AGI “components” difficult or impossible to blockchainify. Some components can be vastly improved it seems. When building a giant sculpture with a handful of traditional tools you need to utilize a new tool in new and creative ways to do things difficult or impossible to do before. Most of my experience with blockchain, besides some technical research, is from trading cryptocurrencies over the years and running many masternodes (wife calls me a masternoder 😊 ) to supplement income. So I’ve done research on thousands of cryptos basically and have practical experience. Look at TRON acquiring bittorrent – very interesting 😊 So among the thousands of crypto’s you get many organizations doing different things going different directions with their chains… on and off … Relational integrity of course! My suggestion here of conscious awareness, essentially securely recording and distributing historical consciousness basically to platform “model checking” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_checking) on imagined models was to use specific new features that blockchain brings. Just touching on a couple of your insights… John From: Nanograte Knowledge Technologies via AGI <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2018 10:45 AM To: AGI <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [agi] Blockchainifying Conscious Awareness The Blockchain 2.0 and AGI - My rudimentary thoughts. Because I'm still learning about this technology, anyone (including IBM) should feel free to correct me where ever my understanding fails the reality. I'm commenting because of the apparent significance of this technology to our business future (including an AGI world). Please accept my apologies if I inadvertently misrepresent the facts of the product and/or its application across industry. I have no motive to want to do so. I can best relate to Blockchain as an application, which automatically generates Entity Relational Databases on the fly. Primarily, Blockchain very much represents a dynamic data model. Granted, it has transactional functionality, security, and the like, but all of that would be quite meaningless without the integrity derived from the data model. Further, without the relational part of the model, all entities (in the sense of nodes) would remain uncoupled (unclustered). Without the business rules in place, the nodes would not be able to be logically clustered. In short, Blockchain could be compared to many things, including a scalable VPN, which is enabled by a dynamic, relational data model. Did I say relational? Yes, I did. In argument, if no relational integrity existed, would referential integrity be possible at all (in this case)? In a stretch, the hearty part of Blockchain could also be viewed as an operationally-integrated, near-real time, enterprisal, lower CASE tool. My summary: Is The Blockchain a great, closed-network, commercial app? It probably is. How would The Blockchain co-exist with AI? Pretty- damned good. Is The Blockchain suitable as a core component for an AGI platform? No, but it may be quite useful as a management application (a node) for one of the many levels within the system (e.g., value transactions). This, provided the true scalability issues could be resolved, which remains to be seen. If The Blockcahin belonged to me, I would've integrated The Blockchain with a truly-scalable ontology and repositioned its core on a complex-adaptive model. I would've turned the pyramid on its head. What do I see as the key constraint for The Blockchain? It's core dependency on what appears to be a relational model. What is my issue with The Blockchain's claim to be fully scalable? Given pervasive network infrastructure being used across the world, I think a risk exists that The Blockchain may eventually either duplicate, or contribute to ambiguity within an open-standards network topology. That is, unless The Blockchain is only X scalable within a standardized networking environment. Scalable perhaps, yet limited in scale (does this still count as scalability then?). I'm not suggesting the data-model-generation component is not scalable. In theory, that sub-component should scale rather easily. However, that is is more a case of logical scalability, and not physical scalability (as location, platform, and time based scalability). How about functional scalability? I'm concerned about the true scalability of Ledger functionality and N clusters. Unless The Blockchain deploys centralised data-center nodes in a distributed-management system globally, I cannot imagine how it could effectively manage scalable functionality over time. And if that were the case, their claim of always only having a single image of a truth represented in the database, surely cannot be true at all times. It is incredibly difficult to N scale a single-source architecture. I'd need to wait this one out to see if this claim is actually true in all cases. Does one need the Blockchain 2.0 to enable AGI? I think not. It would all depend on the ontology(ies) one would employ for a version of AGI. Complex-adaptive ontologies would not require The Blockchain 2.0. Can The Blockchain 2.0 exhibit valid and reliable functionality of consciousness (including awareness)? No, it cannot. It can only make believe that it does. I think one should be careful of clever terminology being used to obscure old-school functionality. Thus, I understand 'Consensus' to mean that all existing members of a transactional, VPN node need to agree to adding a node, or a new agent service (a new service partner) to their clusternode. In this context, Çonsensus may actually just mean obtaining approval. One may well wonder, if 1/10 members decide not to approve such an addition, what happens then, as would be the case in true consensus-based systems? Perhaps, that problem would never occur, because there would be Superuser members assigned in the system who could decide on behalf of others, like an administrator function (data, or context owner) for that particular cluster. Probably have to be such an arrangement for e-Governance purposes. Afterthought on the imaginary scope of AGI: would one ask an accountant (even a data savvy one) to design a living galaxy? Rob _____ From: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, 18 June 2018 10:10 AM To: AGI Subject: Re: [agi] Blockchainifying Conscious Awareness Walking this further: Nuzz: Facebook is centralized. They own your data. You are the product. They get hacked. Mahoney: This is about consensus not competition. So... fullnodes, masternodes, multi-componented. One component set for rendering models one for checking. Consensus is n confirmations on models, nodes do both, either, or none of this functional subset (meaning doing other). Multichain. Need to optimize computational topology due to gossip problem. Nodes can be clusters… Blockchain topology is prefect for this. John <https://agi.topicbox.com/latest> Artificial General Intelligence List / AGI / see discussions <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi> + participants <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/members> + delivery options <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups> Permalink <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T9353b0b8fd3894d8-Mab914c81d06143fbd886802a> ------------------------------------------ Artificial General Intelligence List: AGI Permalink: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T9353b0b8fd3894d8-Mb561dbc1979d5dc1d2e1a08c Delivery options: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups
