Disagreed. If you had the design and capability to code, there's no reason why 
such a system could not be developed. Assuming a core-systems dev approach was 
used as phase 1, all key components could be developed and integration tested 
as a proof of concept.

As architect I have the design and ability to translate it into pseudo code, 
but I lack the programming skills. According to my version, this is one of the 
easier components of an AGI services platform. The theory is mature enough to 
enable this.

________________________________
From: Jim Bromer via AGI <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, 12 October 2018 8:59 PM
To: AGI
Subject: Re: [agi] Compressed Algorithms that can work on compressed data

"which had the sole intent to achieve and maintain the
highest-potential level of competency"
This is obviously an exaggerated goal for anyone today and certainly
for any of us and it is really not what I tried to describe in my last
message. I am thinking about achievable goals, and the main problem
that I see is that mundane necessities, like search, compare, and
refinement of an interpretation, is a fundamental obstacle to creating
a program that can actually acquire information by interacting in ways
that even young children can..
Jim Bromer
On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 2:47 PM Nanograte Knowledge Technologies via
AGI <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Agreed. According to your version of such a system, you would probably run 
> out of processing power.
>
> Consider Michael Shumacher, the 7-times world record holder in F1 racing. It 
> was said about him that he was so gifted, he used only 10% of his brain power 
> to drive the car, and the other 90% to plan how to win the race. In other 
> words, he was a predictive genius.
>
> Suppose then, 1 of the 16 levels was a generic, regenerative, 
> methodology-producing engine, which had the sole intent to achieve and 
> maintain the highest-potential level of competency in any situational domain 
> (autonomous effective complexity with least "brain power"required).  Suppose 
> we viewed this as part of AGI "DNA".
>
> How would such a computational architecture be different to your version?
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Jim Bromer via AGI <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, 12 October 2018 7:35 PM
> To: AGI
> Subject: Re: [agi] Compressed Algorithms that can work on compressed data
>
> The potential to create specialized data structures for AGI might have
> a (specialized) advantage that is unlike anything that you are
> familiar with. So these data structures would be compressed, but the
> compression might exist at different levels or different depths. They
> might exist at different depths because they refer to concepts (groups
> of interrelated concepts) that existed at different conceptual levels
> of 'resolution'. For example, there are distinctions between
> particulars and generalizations but there are also differences between
> general subject matter and vaguely understood references. Also there
> could be different levels of (effective) compression based on
> different kinds of relationships between concepts. For another example
> of how these computable references might be used, in some cases they
> will try to come up with specifics given some situation but in other
> cases they might come up with possible variations of what might be
> relevant to a situation and come up with some possibilities about how
> the program might react to find more information.
> There is only one thing wrong with this plan. It would be too slow -
> unless these reactions could be computed quickly and efficiently. If
> an artificial system of storing concepts was designed to efficiently
> produce results that could be used to design and shape interactions
> with the user, the program might get enough information to be able to
> figure out how to interpret what was being said.Jim Bromer
>
> On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 9:28 AM Nanograte Knowledge Technologies via
> AGI <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > I think, for your AGI ideas, you'll require a Symbolism Management 
> > subsystem. But first, answer the question:
> > "What is Jim's version of AGI Symbolism Management?"
> >
> > As a case in point, what you thus might call 'Symbolism Management', I 
> > might just call 'Illusion Management'.
> >
> > In my mind, my system would potentially cope with up to 16, real-time 
> > integrated levels of abstraction. Furthermore, this has potential to open 
> > the door for access to the magical 256 NP-Complete findings.
> >
> > Rob
> > ________________________________
> > From: Jim Bromer via AGI <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Friday, 12 October 2018 11:27 AM
> > To: AGI
> > Subject: Re: [agi] Compressed Algorithms that can work on compressed data.
> >
> > The idea of relative randomness of a given compression is kind of 
> > interesting.
> > There are some compressions which may be transformed without fully
> > decompressing it. In fact LZ, if I understand correctly, uses what has
> > already been compressed to append a next section to be compressed. And
> > computational mathematics, using n-ary or base n representation, is
> > actually a case of applying functions on compressed data. And most
> > data base functions which use one part of many data records to compute
> > some value are examples of effectively using compressed data without
> > fully decompressing it. (The one part of the data that is being used
> > is an abstraction of a transaction for instance.)
> > I am really thinking about specialized fields of data. And I do have
> > an idea for AGI in which data may be stored in various levels of
> > compression. Ideas may refer to a subject matter (or subjects) in
> > various levels of resolution which can also overlap other concepts in
> > various ways. I am almost sure that I could make this work for some
> > artificial data (or artificial formations of references) and then use
> > it to make successive computations of how concepts might interact. But
> > right now I I nterested in seeing if there is any way I can use any of
> > these ideas to create a novel way to represent logical relations.
> > Jim Bromer
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 4:59 AM Andrés Gómez Emilsson via AGI
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > If the algorithm for compression is good then forget about it. In that 
> > > case the best (and near only) way is to uncompress the file and then 
> > > re-compress it with the new, more effective algorithm.
> > >
> > > On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 10:53 PM Nanograte Knowledge Technologies via AGI 
> > > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> A discussion centered around pseudo randomness.
> > >>
> > >> As a private experiment on randomness, I once took published data of 
> > >> cosmic noise and tabled it in an appropriate way. Within less than 54 
> > >> iterations, emerged a consistent, embedded pattern. My conclusion was 
> > >> that cosmic noise was pseudo random. Would my experiment destroy the 
> > >> lava-lamp theory of true randomness? Possibly.
> > >>
> > >> Recently, someone quoted Gell Mann. His established view on randomness 
> > >> is most enlightening.
> > >>
> > >> As far as I can tell, true randomness cannot be observed, because the 
> > >> instant it is observed the energy of observation destroys the purity (or 
> > >> truth) thereof. Unless you're a remote viewer,  or supernatural observer 
> > >> it would seem that science has fallen foul of its own need for empirical 
> > >> evidence. Solve the problem: How does one observe without observing at 
> > >> all?
> > >>
> > >> Matt, I think you have earned an olive branch in that within a bridging, 
> > >> scientific theory (Existentialism) you may call any thing whatever you 
> > >> want, for as long as you have it clearly objectified; defined in terms 
> > >> of meaningfulness and applied in a consistent, semantic manner. I think 
> > >> the prior statement contains a hidden key.
> > >>
> > >> If so, then you may rely on the probability of your accepted version of 
> > >> that thing. Further, to ensure it would remain correct and complete 
> > >> within your particular system. How do you do that?
> > >>
> > >> Still, easy to translate across boundaries as well.
> > >>
> > >> *One's shoe may be another's steak. That is the nature of true 
> > >> relativity in motion.
> > >>
> > >> Rob
> > >> ________________________________
> > >> From: Jim Bromer via AGI <[email protected]>
> > >> Sent: Friday, 12 October 2018 3:34 AM
> > >> To: AGI
> > >> Subject: Re: [agi] Compressed Algorithms that can work on compressed 
> > >> data.
> > >>
> > >> Matt said, "A string is random if there is no shorter description of
> > >> the string."
> > >>
> > >> That is a conjecture, or a hypothesis.
> > >>
> > >> Matt said, "... but there is no general algorithm to distinguish them in 
> > >> any
> > >> language.
> > >> "Encrypted data appears random if you don't know the key. But it is not
> > >> random because it has a short description (compressed plaintext +
> > >> key). Kolmogorov proved that there is no general algorithm to tell the
> > >> difference."
> > >>
> > >> if there is no general algorithm to distinguish or detect them then
> > >> the hypothesis cannot be validated. While you might present a string
> > >> and declare it to be "random" the fact that you cannot prove that it
> > >> is the shortest description of the string and therefore purely random,
> > >> or random, then the conjecture cannot be sustained.
> > >> Jim Bromer
> > >> On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 1:37 PM Matt Mahoney via AGI
> > >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 12:38 PM John Rose <[email protected]> 
> > >> > wrote:
> > >> > > OK, what then is between a compression agents perspective (or any 
> > >> > > agent for that matter) and randomness? Including shades of 
> > >> > > randomness to relatively "pure" randomness.
> > >> >
> > >> > A string is random if there is no shorter description of the string.
> > >> > Obviously this depends on which language you use to write
> > >> > descriptions. Formally, a description is a program that outputs the
> > >> > string. There are no "shades" of randomness. A string is random or
> > >> > not, but there is no general algorithm to distinguish them in any
> > >> > language. If there were, then AIXI and thus general intelligence would
> > >> > be computable.
> > >> >
> > >> > > From an information theoretic (and thermodynamic) viewpoint in your 
> > >> > > mind what happens when you see the symbol for infinity? 
> > >> > > Semi-quantitatively describe the thought processes?
> > >> >
> > >> > The same thing that happens when you see any other symbols like "2" or
> > >> > "+". Mathematics is the art of discovering rules for manipulating
> > >> > symbols that help us make real world predictions.
> > >> >
> > >> > --
> > >> > -- Matt Mahoney, [email protected]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Andrés Leonardo Gómez Emilsson
> > > Sentient Being (or Consciousness Narrative Stream, depending on how you 
> > > want to look at it)
> > > Artificial General Intelligence List / AGI / see discussions + 
> > > participants + delivery options Permalink
> > Artificial General Intelligence List / AGI / see discussions + participants 
> > + delivery options Permalink
> Artificial General Intelligence List / AGI / see discussions + participants + 
> delivery options Permalink

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