You haven’t the foggiest what you’re talking about – you’re just playing (as I 
more or less indicated you would) desperate logic games. Your examples are 
totally hypothetical – and false.

Here is an *actual* not a hypothetical trompe l’oeil. Please explain what on 
earth words or symbols have to do with understanding it – or try and explain 
how any non-visual, non-sensory processing is involved.

http://www.meridian.net.au/Art/Artists/MCEscher/Gallery/Images/escher-relativity-lithograph-medium.jpg

Note I can describe it in words:

ESCHER’S PICTURE SHOWS HUMANS IMPOSSIBLY GOING UP AND DOWN DIFFERENT SIDES OF A 
STAIRCASE  – AND STAIRCASES CONNECTING ALTHOUGH ON TOTALLY DIFFERENT 
DIMENSIONAL LEVELS .

Do you think my brain produced those words by consulting semantic networks? 
Please explain how – or be honest, think of your God, and acknowledge that you 
don’t have the slightest clue how the brain can produce those words.

And here are some actual not hypothetical visual ambiguities:

http://brainden.com/images/optical-illusions.gif
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/Duck-Rabbit_illusion.jpg

Please explain how the brain can recognize these ambiguities by other than 
visual/sensory means.

Or how the brain can understand a verbal description -  A DUCK CAN LOOK LIKE A 
RABBIT BACK TO FRONT – by consulting only words/symbols.

I would suggest that the obvious way the brain is able to recognize that these 
are ambiguous pictures is by seeing that the same picture can be physically 
fitted to fit two very different prototypical figures. – the same drawing 
outlines/figure can be fitted to the figures of both a duck and a rabbit, a 
young girl and an old woman.

The brain is physically manipulating and moving around figures, not superfluous 
words.

And more of this another time – but that – “figurative thought – the capacity 
to physically, endlessly reconfigure the figures of objects, both individually 
and jointly -  is the basis of language and the basis of AGI.

What is totally non-AGI is “mere words” – no matter how many logic games you 
play.



From: Jim Bromer 
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 6:15 PM
To: AGI 
Subject: RE: [agi] What I Was Trying to Say.

Suppose that a box was cleverly carved so that it looked like it had a towel 
draped over it.  A visual based AGI program would be unable to detect the 
difference without some kind of additional action to help it discover the 
trompe l'oeil.  
 
And suppose that a word was used to refer to different things.  A visual based 
AGI program would have the same kinds of problems understanding that as a 
word-based AGI would have unless some kind of education to point out that the 
word was being used in different ways was available to it.
 
An AGI program has to be able to effectively utilize education.  It has to be 
able to meaningfully convert instruction into workable knowledge.  The 
distinction between procedural knowledge and declarative knowledge for a person 
is not that distinct except when looked at in detail.  (The decision to call 
certain mental events "procedural" would be somewhat arbitrary.)
 
The ability to be educated is one of the hallmarks of intelligence.  It should 
not be disregarded. And this can be achieved in text-based AGI. It is just a 
matter of when it is done.  Watson may have been long overdue but it was a 
major milestone in AI/AGI.
 
Jim Bromer
 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [agi] What I Was Trying to Say.
Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 14:59:02 +0100


I’ll gladly put $1000 (or considerably more) down now publicly that neither 
your nor any other word-based “so-called AGI” prog will generate a single thing 
in 1/2/5 years – generativity, I think we can agree, being a test of AGI.




      

              

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