Again. Come back when you've done it. Don't let the door hit you on the Azzz-n on the way out. G'day mate. ~PM Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2014 12:49:36 -0700 Subject: Re: [AGI] Jeff Hawkins says 2014 is the year ! From: [email protected] To: [email protected]
PM, I've already contributed more than enough to this list.. evident by over 3 private messages (the whole list has 30 people lol). What's the point of providing a technical paper anyway? That doesn't seem to have helped Ben G... As I have said before, I'm creating a new Web because the problems facing AGI are going to take a lot more ideas and resources. I envision a new Web consisting of maybe 35 Web platforms (as the new Web will be one giant database based on my new data model and top maps) covering local knowledge to science. Once phase 1 is completed (destruction of the old fragmented Web), I plan to roll out a Web platform that directs AGI research. The system we’ll be able to merge all references to a concept onto a single topic and you will have access to all the information the systems knows about the concept in one place. Researchers will be able to integrate their ideas into a greater collection of knowledge and shared across the Web. This will allow a single, coherent visual framework/systematic picture in which users can focus on one or more concepts and immediately see a conceptual summary of their focus. The system will then request scientists, etc to conduct detailed research to discover unknown facts about analyzed knowledge. The system would then put these facts into the database by itself, even without interaction with researchers. Many major scientific discoveries and breakthroughs have involved recognizing the connections across domains or integrating insights from several sources. In fact, a recent National Science Foundation report, “Rebuilding the Mosaic”, compiled over 250 white papers from researchers calling for more interdisciplinary research. These are not associations of words; they are deep insights that involve the actual subject matter of these domains. We know that by looking at multiple issues simultaneously, we can expand our knowledge and drastically change how we approach our common problems. That's the kind of thing that would get AGI moving forward if done right. That would also lead to a revolution in science (http://science.kqed.org/quest/2011/09/26/the-open-science-movement/) where Scientists, professional and amateur would have secure profiles and could publish ideas quickly and be on record as the first to come up with something long before they could get a paper out for peer review. The pressure to publish here would come not from the science greats but from the fringe. If some group of amateurs starts using their collective brains to start mapping out ideas in your area of expertise, you better get all of your work out in the daylight or they will steal your thunder. Any ideas you post to someone else' page are there on record, so your part is known to all. In the past you could have one genius pushing our understanding because a lot wasn't known. Today, progress is a lot more incremental and departmental ... One guy spends 5 years and through trial and error he makes a small discovery. It takes time before other researches integrate his discovery into their thought and put it to use because everything is too fragmented and fucked up. The possibilities are endless here. What's your AGI idea again? On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 12:15 PM, Piaget Modeler <[email protected]> wrote: Azzz-n, Please provide a link to one technical paper you've written, or one working AI or AGI program, or one book you've authored. I'll even take a blog post on A(G)I, for that matter. If you have nothing solid to contribute to this list, just go away... (Debating whether or not to add "until you do".) ~PM Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2014 11:23:03 -0700 Subject: Re: [AGI] Jeff Hawkins says 2014 is the year ! From: [email protected] To: [email protected] "If you know anything about progress, you know you must try all the ways something doesn't work before you stumble upon the way(s) that work. Could take 50 years, could take 5,000." I don't need to try 20 different cups with holes in them to know they are all going to leak! Just like I can go back 30 years and tell you AGI isn't a math problem! On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 9:15 AM, Piaget Modeler <[email protected]> wrote: I like hippies, they're generally non-violent. They wear peace signs. If you know anything about progress, you know you must try all the ways something doesn't work before you stumble upon the way(s) that work. Could take 50 years, could take 5,000. ~PM Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2014 02:19:19 -0700 Subject: Re: [AGI] Jeff Hawkins says 2014 is the year ! From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Why do find healthy, powerful and ascending life unpleasant PM? Humility is for the weak, sick and on the decline. Brave, unconcerned, mocking, violent—thus wisdom wants us: she is a woman and always loves only a warrior. AGI is not going to fall into your laps hippie. Just look at all the failed attempts going back 50 plus years. If you want real thinking machines, you're going to have to fight for it. On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 8:25 PM, Piaget Modeler <[email protected]> wrote: We'll All African's aren't Black . That's for sure. And you, my friend, come off more as Obnoxious than Black. That's for sure, too. Try a little humility. It may go a very long way. Cheers, ~PM Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2014 11:38:02 -0700 Subject: Re: [AGI] Jeff Hawkins says 2014 is the year ! From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Pm, according to this 23andMe ancestry composition. I'm 57% African, 19% Ashkenazi, 18% Persian and 5% Native American. In other words, I'm kool, smart and sexy. Just think of a younger, smarter version of Barack Obama :) I don't think AGI is impossible. Ben G has some good Ideas. So do a lot of people. But they are missing pieces here and there. On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 7:44 AM, Piaget Modeler <[email protected]> wrote: @ [the big] Azzzz, You're not Black. #1- Black people use capital B's to describe themselves; #2 - they prefer to use the words "African" or "African-American" to Black; #3 - they don't define themselves by their ability to use expletives; and finally #4 - they know that spelling cool with a k isn't. So I'd appreciate you being yourself, and being real. You're reminding me a lot of Mike Tintner--only he said AGI couldn't be done becauseit is impossible, no one will ever know how. Now you're saying AGI can't be done because other people currently don't know how, but you do. Omoshiroi... ~PM Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2014 01:10:46 -0700 Subject: Re: [AGI] Jeff Hawkins says 2014 is the year ! From: [email protected] To: [email protected] "I'm not sure I'd drop so many f-bombs" That's because you're not black or kool like me ;). On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 3:51 PM, Sergio Donal <[email protected]> wrote: I also read it several years ago and do not remember pretty much either, but the thought that comes to my mind is that he was speaking that we are basically predicting the environment, either spatially, temporally or any other feature. So prediction is a form of "completion the scene" and there is where creativity comes up, we predict the current scene based in our past observations (and completions) but since the scene may be new, we are applying past experience to solve new problems. Or something like that... Now I realize, doesn't this sound kind of Bayesian? On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 11:28 PM, Mike Archbold <[email protected]> wrote: I'm not sure I'd drop so many f-bombs, but I had the feeling he's got a good compression/pattern match overall command scheme, and not math-heavy to boot, but not sure if he's got the ability to solve general problems. In other words, what is the processing structure for solving problems? I've read On Intelligence, 10 years ago, but have at present only a superficial understanding of his approach. On 4/3/14, Azn A <[email protected]> wrote: > He doesn't have is a fully temporal semantic database structure with a > generative normalization pattern matcher/vectorized scale free calculation > minimizer... I.e. the G in AGI. In other words, he's missing the minimal > concept basis for processing that has an optimal scalability while > minimizing complexity, without that it's a crap shoot if someone will ever > succeed in making a better than human level AGI that isn't just brute > forcing human intelligence by putting too much human knowledge in a system > and claiming it is better than human level intelligence while it is > actually less than human level due to a complete lack of creativity. > > Even worse, the deepest problem that nobody ever thinks about is the > knowledge representation system... they all have static/fragile designs, > Hawkins' products are really bad even in the sorta neural-net form he has > is fucking self-crippling in the number of associations that can be built > up. I've never seen a fucking neural-network capable of self-reflection and > differentiation, among many other conceptual paradoxical forms humans have > no problems thinking about.. > > > > > On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 1:44 PM, Mike Archbold <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Long article, but interesting. It sounds like he's built the input >> but not the output, the motor control. I don't think there is any >> convincing argument about what paradigms to use for strong AI / AGI >> since there isn't a working such thing yet. Some math-first >> approaches seem like they want to lose you with the formula, otherwise >> I like math.... >> >> On 4/3/14, John Rose <[email protected]> wrote: >> > You don't have enough math here. >> > >> > >> > >> > People are now looking more at the mathematical formalisms of software >> > systems. There are so many and of such variety. >> > >> > >> > >> > Hawkins has one approach not the only approach. >> > >> > >> > >> > He's hardcoding the components mimicked from biological intelligence. >> > Are >> > there more efficient and easier to build components and are there >> > components >> > that morph? His don't morph. It looks to me like hardcoded AI BUT I >> haven't >> > studied the system. >> > >> > >> > >> > John >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > From: Azn A [mailto:[email protected]] >> > >> > >> > >> > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/03/29/hawkins_ai_feature >> > >> > >> > >> > "These are complex biological systems that were not designed by >> > mathematical >> > principles [that are] very difficult to formalize completely," he told >> us. >> > >> > >> > >> > "This reminds me a bit of the beginning of the computer era," he said. >> "If >> > you go back to the 1930s and early 1940s, when people first started >> > thinking >> > about computers they were really interested in whether an algorithm >> > would >> > complete, and they were looking for mathematical completeness, a >> > mathematical proof. If you today build a computer, no one sits around >> > saying >> > 'let's look at the mathematical formalism of this computer.' It reminds >> me >> > a >> > little about that. We still have people saying 'You don't have enough >> math >> > here!' >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > AGI | <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> Archives >> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/248029-3b178a58> | >> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> >> > Modify Your Subscription >> > >> > <http://www.listbox.com> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------------------- >> > AGI >> > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >> > RSS Feed: >> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/11943661-d9279dae >> > Modify Your Subscription: >> > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >> > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >> > >> >> >> ------------------------------------------- >> AGI >> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >> RSS Feed: >> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/10514698-9a8cda1e >> Modify Your Subscription: >> https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >> > > > > ------------------------------------------- > AGI > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/11943661-d9279dae > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/15717384-a248fe41 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com AGI | Archives | Modify Your Subscription AGI | Archives | Modify Your Subscription AGI | Archives | Modify Your Subscription AGI | Archives | Modify Your Subscription AGI | Archives | Modify Your Subscription AGI | Archives | Modify Your Subscription AGI | Archives | Modify Your Subscription AGI | Archives | Modify Your Subscription AGI | Archives | Modify Your Subscription AGI | Archives | Modify Your Subscription ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
