Re: John Rose’s comments:
Yes, as lot of anesthesiologist are hard core. I have heard Stuart Hammeroff, one of the Toward a Science of Consciousness conference, can party hardy. “ I actually like mathematical descriptions” to. That’s why I opposed the notion that mathematics had nothing to do with consciousness. But I don’t think Lie groups are probably relevant at many important levels of description, because the topology of neural connectiveness often defines a relatively sparse raged space, and I thought Lie space were supposed to be locally continuous and orthogonal. I am not an expert on Lie groups so I could be wrong. Re: Mike Archbold’s comments: I am not an expert on Platonist thinking, but I don’t think existence independent of human representation is more related to Plato’s teaching than it is to the thinking of most current scientist, who believe our current universe (that derived from our big bang 13,7 billion years ago) existed before humans came into existence roughly in the last one hundred thousand years. Plato believed in Platonic ideals, something that in reality probably only exist in the minds of men, and thus his concept of reality is actually more dependent on the existence of humans than that of most scientist. On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 1:01 PM, Mike Archbold <[email protected]> wrote: > On 11/11/15, EdFromNH . <[email protected]> wrote: > > Obviously memory and information topology play a role in consciousness, > so > > the poster is not 100% in error. But overall, this poster struck me as a > > drug inspired, poorly thought-out throwing together of misunderstood, > > complicated mathematical and scientific concepts. > > > > > > Regarding: > >>Just because mathematics can be derived from the brain does not mean the > > brain is computing anything mathematically. > > > > I disagree. But perhaps that is because I am defining "mathematics" more > > broadly. If one defines "mathematics" as being limited to human created > > understanding and representation of rules of computation, clearly it only > > plays a role in consciousness when the consciousness is of, or relates > to, > > such human created understanding. But I, and many other scientists, > define > > "mathematics: to also including the actual rules that control physical > > reality's computations -- rules which we humans use mathematics to > > represent, but which have existence independent of our human > representation > > of them. With this more inclusive definition of mathematics, it is > clears > > that the brain's computations that give rise to consciousness are > computed > > mathematically. > > > > > > "Existence independent of our human representation" sounds a > platonist, OK... when you say "actual rules that control physical > reality's computations..." it seems like you are obliged to venture > into metaphysics. But that has a bad reputation... Like: end comes > after beginning, part is less than whole, quantity can be in terms of > ones, etc. But, how do you represent that sort of thing > mathematically? How do you use math to figure end is after beginning? > > > On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 6:40 AM, John Rose <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: Mike Archbold [mailto:[email protected]] > >> > > >> > I'll chime in for MIke TIntner. My best impression: > >> > > >> > Just because mathematics can be derived from the brain does not mean > >> > the > >> > brain is computing anything mathematically. > >> > > >> > >> Ya Tintner is a memory on our consciousness, he's some morphisms on > >> bundle > >> fibers in our symplectic manifolds... but I can't seem to get them > >> unintertwingled. Need a red hot neuromathematical poker to sear him > outta > >> there ssssSSSSSS! > >> > >> John > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------------------- > >> AGI > >> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > >> RSS Feed: > https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/8630185-a57a74e1 > >> Modify Your Subscription: > >> https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > >> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > >> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > > AGI > > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > > RSS Feed: > https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/11943661-d9279dae > > Modify Your Subscription: > > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > AGI > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/8630185-a57a74e1 > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
