Moshe,
Well, I always have thought straw men were kinda cute ;-) Seriosuly though: The current proposal for the AGI-SIM world *does* include content-richness on the order of a 30x30 binary pixel grid. It just doesn't include content-richness on the order of what comes in through a pair of human eyes... If a 30x30 pixel grid is what you mean by content-richness, then I do intend for Novamente to deal with *this* kind of content-richness in the fairly near future (how near depending on the achievement of relevant funding, blah blah blah). I believe that this level of richness doesn't require the kind of complex, specialized pre-filtering that human-eye-level richness requires... -- Ben > Hi, > > > In a private email, Moshe Looks added a common complaint that I'd > > forgotten: > > > > ---- > > > > Complaint: Learning to be intelligent isn�t possible without building up > > abstract cognitions hierarchically from a foundation of content-rich > > sensory > > and action streams. While Novamente can deal with content-rich sensory > > and > > action streams in principle, it�s not really centrally designed > for this. > > Work on AGI should begin with study of perception and action, > and then one > > should ask what sort of cognition naturally goes along with > one�s working > > perception and action modules � and the answer may or may not look like > > Novamente. > > > Well, this is a bit of a straw-man. I guess its fairly close to the view > of Patrick Winston and Project Genesis (http://genesis.csail.mit.edu/), > but *I* was applying the words "content-rich" to modalities rather that > sensory and action streams. For example, would you condsider a 30x30 > binary pixel grid with a logo turtle "content-rich sensory and action > streams"? Maybe, but I'm sure its not the first image that appears in the > minds of the intrepid AGIers reading this ;-). Yet you can come up with > all sorts of "rich" modality-specific problems, like resolving ambiguity, > object completion, invariance under transformations, temporal patterns, > etc, etc, etc... Clearly a buch of the brain's perception/action > complexity is completely irrelevant in dealing with such a world, but not > all of it! The Anwser still bascially works, I just wanted to get the > question clear.. > > Moshe > > **************************** > > > Answer: Our intuition is that content-rich media aren�t critical, rather > > that what�s important for learning to think is interaction with other > > minds > > in a shared perceptual environment in which you�re embodied. > However, if > > content-rich media are critical, Novamente can be used for rich > > sensorimotor > > processing perfectly well. While it�s always possible to code > specialized > > processing code for each type of sensor and actuator, we believe it�s > > better > > to begin with a common framework (such as BOA+PTL) and then > specialize it > > to > > deal with the different modalities. This is conceptually > analogous to the > > way the brain uses the same basic neural mechanisms to deal with the > > different human modalities, and also with cognition. > > > > ---- > > > >> Complaint: The design is too complicated, there are too many > >> parts to coordinate, too many things that could go wrong > >> > >> Answer: Yes it IS complicated, and we wish it were simpler, but > >> we haven�t found a simpler design that doesn�t seem patently > >> unworkable. Note that the human brain is also mighty complicated > >> � this may just be the nature of making general intelligence work > >> with limited resources. > >> > >> Complaint: BOA and PTL are not enough, you need some kind of more > >> fundamentally innovative, efficient, or (whatever) learning > >> algorithm. This complaint never comes along with any suggestion > >> regarding what this �mystery algorithm� might be, though � most > >> often it is hypothesized that detailed understanding of the human > >> brain will reveal it. > >> > >> Answer: This is possible, but it seems to us that a hybrid of BOA > >> and PTL will be enough. The question is whether deeper > >> integration of BOA and PTL than we�ve done now will allow BOA > >> learning of reasonably large (500-1000 node) combinator trees. > >> If so, then we almost surely don�t need any other learning > >> algorithm, though other algorithms may be helpful. > >> > >> Complaint: You�re programming in too much stuff: you should be > >> making more of a pure self-organizing learning system without so > >> many in-built rules and heuristics > >> > >> Answer: Well, the human brain seems to have a lot of stuff > >> programmed in, as well as a robust capability for self-organizing > >> learning. Conceptually, we love the idea of a pure > >> self-organizing learning system as much as anyone, but it doesn�t > >> seem to be feasible given realistic time and processing power and > >> memory constraints. > >> > >> Complaint: Programming explicit logical rules is just wrong; > >> logic should occur as an emergent phenomenon from more > >> fundamental subsymbolic dynamics > >> > >> Answer: Probabilistic logic is not necessarily symbolic; in the > >> Novamente design we use PTL for both subsymbolic and symbolic > >> learning, which we believe is a highly elegant approach. The > >> differences between subsymbolic probabilistic logic and e.g. > >> Hebbian learning are not really very great when you look at them > >> mathematically rather than in terms of verbiage. The Novamente > >> design is not tied to programming-in logical knowledge a la Cyc. > >> It�s true that the PTL rules are programmed in (though in > >> Novamente 2.0 they will be made adaptable), but this isn�t so > >> different from the brain having particular kinds of long-term > >> potentiation wired in, is it? > > > > > > ------- > > To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate your > > subscription, > > please go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > ------- > To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate > your subscription, > please go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ------- To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate your subscription, please go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
