[agi] Re: Four axioms (WAS Two draft papers . . . .)

[Mark Waser]

From: James Ratcliff To: agi@v2.listbox.com Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 4:13 PM Subject: Re: [agi] Two draft papers: AI and existential risk; heuristics and biases   >> Hmm, now what again is your goal, I am confused?       To maximally increase Volition actualization/wish fulfillment (Axiom 1).   >> You [said?] there is a possible formula that will make an AI "friendly" but unfriendly toward others, how will that benefit anyone then?       That's horrible.  I said absolutely nothing of the sort and would strongly argue against anything like that.        I said that friendly included a number of effects that (currently unfriendly) others will decry as undesirable, horrible, or immoral (like preventing them from killing infidels, etc.).  Note that without understanding exactly what friendly is, YOU may be unfriendly without even realizing it (and I would contend that all of us are unfriendly to some extent and to a much greater degree than we realize).       The point is to make the AI equally friendly to all (including itself). >> Now, something that appeals to the friendliness of everyone, 'sounds' better, but hasnt that already been tried with Socialism, Communism, and Democracy?  With less than spectacular results?       Yes, it 'sounds' better (because I would contend that it is better -- and the fact that humanity is constantly striving towards it tends to support my contention).        Yes, it has been attempted with a variety of different implementation methods (Socialism, Communism, and Democracy) with less than spectacular results.  Of course, flying humans were also attempted a number of times with a variety of different implementation methods with less than spectacular results before Orville and Wilbur succeeded and society continued to advance to the flying humans that we have today.   >> There still would be abortion/noabortion xlaw/no xlaw that would be deemed unfriendly.       No.  There still would be abortion/noabortion xlaw/no xlaw that would be decried by some as undesirable, horrible, or immoral.  The point to a precise logical extendible formulation of friendliness is that it will be obvious what is friendly and what is not and -- once a sufficient number of lawmakers are friendly -- only friendly laws will be implemented.  My point is meant to be much larger than just a friendly AI.  WE (and our society) need to become friendly >> On another tack, I am looking at using some sort of general goodness or friendliness equation as a decider for motivation of my AI, and it takes into account many 'selfish' values such as personal wealth, but will also have a 'world' value thatdetermines if the world is in better state, ie preventing death where possible and making other people happy.       Hmmm.  This statement makes me believe that I'm not expressing myself well enough to convey what I mean to you (personally) and that our ideas are actually quite closer than you believe because it looks to me like a fairly close approximation to a simplified version of my thesis.  If you are willing to accept "maximally increase volition actualization/wish fulfillment" as your decider for motivation for your AI, the AI is certainly allowed to have and act upon 'selfish' wishes for personal wealth while still acting in accordance with society's goals of increasing everyone's volition (which generally means preventing death and making other people happy).   >> Now the values on this in an AI can switch around, in just the same way as humans, and they could become selfish, or homicidal as well.       <BUZZER> NO!  This is ABSOLUTELY what we have to design to prevent.  An AI with a flipped value system could easily become the end of the human race.  If your AI's value system can flip then I will go to war to prevent it's being built and I would be perfectly logically correct in doing so.       Note too that it would be a far better world if society's persuasion on human beings to not flip their value systems were far more effective.           Mark   To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate your subscription, please go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/[EMAIL PROTECTED]