On 1/19/07, Benjamin Goertzel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
You have not explained how you will overcome the issues that plagued
GOFAI, such as
-- the need for massive amounts of highly uncertain background
knowledge to make real-world commonsense inferences

Precisely, we need to amass millions of pieces of knowledge items, and some
items may have uncertainty.  This is precisely what I'm trying to do.  The
alternative route is machine learning, but that requires a sensorium or a NL
interface, which is an even more daunting task.  (But I don't object you
going that way =))

-- the combinatorial explosion that ensues when you try to control
logical inference on a large body of data

I have studied this issue a bit, unbeknown to you =)  There are ways to
tackle massive numbers of rules, eg the rete algorithm, predicate hashing,
etc.  Soar is a good example using the rete algorithm.  It can handle
millions of rules (and probably many more).

My own solution to these problems is to
-- learn most knowledge via experience rather than via explicit encoding

Nothing wrong with this approach, but it may be even more difficult than
mine.

-- utilize a subtle combination of inference, statistical pattern
mining and artificial economics for inference control


You're getting into the topic of inference control, but I was only talking
about collecting knowledge in the form of rules.  Speaking of my project, it
does not endorse specific inference methods.  It is up to the AGI designer
how to use the data.

BTW, statistical pattern mining is good for *learning* patterns, I wouldn't
use it for inference per se.  For me inference is done only using *existing*
rules and facts in the KB.  Pattern mining is for discovering *new* rules
and facts, which is very time-consuming and compute-intensive.

Pei agrees with me on the "learning via experience" part but has a
different approach to the combinatorial explosion problem of inference
control.  But you have not yet presented any original solutions to
these or other major well-documented problems with the GOFAI approach.


Again, I have no problems with "learning via experience".  What I propose is
to augment this with "knowledge acquisition via direct encoding, with the
help of the net community".  Do you have some reasons against this?  Is it
difficult for Novamente to incorporate the rules database?

Yes, intuitively the approach you're suggesting sounds like it should
work -- at first.  That is why masses of research funding were spent
on it decades ago, and why hundreds of brilliant people spent their
lives on GOFAI.  But you are not giving us any rational reason to
suspect you might succeed in this sort of approach where so many
others have failed.  What is your new and different idea?


I think the key innovation is that I allow rules with variables as well as
facts, and that such knowledge would be collected from online users on a
massive scale (which doesn't mean the project require massive $$$s).  Such a
combination has NOT been attempted before, AFAIK.

Frankly I'm not that knowledgeable about failed GOFAI projects (I was just
teenage in the 80s, playing with a TRS-80).  Decades ago, the internet
didn't exist and there was no way of amassing knowledge like MindPixel can.
This is perhaps the most important reason why past projects failed.

Maybe you're just reflexively saying that GOFAI is a failure, without giving
it serious consideration.  Cyc is not a complete failure.  It's still ALIVE
and it can do some reasoning about terrorist attacks etc.  Why wouldn't an
improved GOFAI succeed?  Perhaps it is an misconception that everything
associated with GOFAI _must_ be abandoned...

YKY

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