On 6/2/07, Mark Waser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
1.  People post their ideas into some layered set of systems that records
them permanently (a wiki or three is fine for ideas initially as long as it
maintains complete histories but code needs to go somewhere better
protected).  Self-suggested values are nonsense, however, and people have to
be aware of the fact that the AGI will eventually do a search for prior art
(i.e. they will get some credit for introducing the idea but not as if it
were their own invention).  People will *eventually* be rewarded either by
the AGI (if such occurs) or by a consensus of active contributors (if
rewards are necessary before an AGI occurs).

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How are you going to estimate the worth of contributions *before* we have
AGI?  I mean, people need to get paid in the interim.

Self-rating is easy, simple, and can be corrected by peers if necessary, eg
"hey, this idea is actually due to ____".

2.  The project will be incorporated.  The intent of the corporation is to
1) protect the AGI and 2) to reward those who created it commensurate with
their contributions.


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Incorporation is fine.


2.1  New ideas/algorithms/code can be submitted under a variety of
arrangements.  The more that the arrangement favors the corporation, the
more the contributor will be rewarded down the line (or more immediately if
the contribution is used in intermediate profit-making projects).  The
intent here is to negatively influence defection while making it possible
for people with extant AGI projects to participate.  Note that the
corporation will be more than willing to accept contributions from (or
exchanges with) other AGI projects and needs to offer good terms to attract
such.


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You have not defined these "arrangements" and your scheme, if too complex,
would lack transparency.


3.  It is nearly impossible to determine the source of *many* ideas;
however, code that is developed from ideas that are clearly developed within
the corporation belongs to the corporation (but, obviously, the code counts
as a major contribution by the author).  All derivatives of the code belong
to the corporation.  The contributor or anyone else with the corporation can
sell the executable of such code at the corporation's profit.  Needless to
say, however, the corporation will reward that person accordingly and
nothing prevents that executable from being embedded in some other product
(or AGI project) with a reasonable licensing fee (or other compensation).


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I think contributions should belong to the very people who contributed them,
as recorded by the contribution history;  and that includes code.  They can
later take the code and use the code for outside projects, *provided* that
they pay for the price of those contributions.  Let's call this the "*outside
project indebtedness*" clause.


4.  Identity verification is mandatory.  There will be several levels of
access to the corporation's work/results and access to the source code of
the various modules will be granted on a need to know basis (yet another
advantage to a good modular design with good interfaces) as determined by
the corporations Board of Directors or it's designee(s).


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I'd champion *open access* to the body of work once a member agrees to the
terms.  How do you determine who "needs" to know something?


4.1  Idea bleed to other extant AGI projects is unavoidable.  What we need
to prevent is the harvesting of the corporation's assets for the benefit of
another project with no return.  As long as an individual/project has
contributed sufficiently, access to the source of additional modules will be
granted singly as necessary (although it is unclear to me that a single
individual is going to be that interested in the low-level source of that
many modules -- unless, of course, they're just interested in running
through them all and improving the code -- which just makes that person an
asset and someone that we want to get vested in the corporation).


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Under the "outside project indebtedness" clause, "idea bleed" can be
prevented (and in a mutually beneficial way too).  Also, you seem to want
too much secrecy, which may turn off people.  I *guess* what people want is
more openness, even though this consortium cannot be exactly called
opensource / free.


4.2  NDAs and NCAs are fundamentally un-enforceable except at the largest
and highest levels.  The corporation will have "honor" contracts/agreements,
however, and the corporation or the AGI can release information about these
(or act upon them regarding eventual compensation) as it sees fit.


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I think NCAs should be replaced by the "outside project indebtedness" (OPI)
clause.
NDAs are very common and should not be a problem, given that people can
start outside projects under OPI.


5.  The software patent system is fundamentally broken.  We need some way
to quickly register any obvious innovations as "prior art" to avoid patent
trolls but otherwise steer clear of the patent system (note: this
emphatically does not mean stealing other's ideas, however).


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It seems that your strategy is based on trade secrets instead of patents.
In my view patents are not a strategic focus but we'll use them sparingly.


The entire point here is to make it beneficial for an individual and other
projects to contribute to (or make equitable exchanges with) the project
while attempting to reduce the probability of theft without recompense.  The
fundamental problem with Open Source, particularly during development, is
that there is more incentive for defection and theft at a well-chosen moment
than there is for remaining with a project.  Thus, this is not going to be
Open Source (though a committed, contributing individual will eventually be
able to see all of the source).  This is also not a one-vote-per-person
democracy.  Influence will be commensurate with contribution (and the best
way to influence the direction of the project is to put in effort and
contributions in that direction) although good suggestions are always
welcome (regardless of source) and will always be implemented (with credit
to the contributor) if appropriate.


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Asking a member to "keep contributing to gain access to the source" sounds
like the "corporate ladder".  Also, some individuals may be able to
contribute at the top level yet suck at the bottom levels.

How's that?


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If you don't mind, my overall impression is:  lack of transparency, too much
hierarchy and authoritarian.

I hope to create a project where members feel *happy* in it, instead of like
a torture chamber.  I guess the most difficult part is to convince people
that this really is a meritocratic system and that everyone's efforts will
be recognized and their ambitions realized.  For this we need openness,
trust, and integrity.

I'm still open to suggestions...

YKY

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