Hi Mike, comments below...
--- On Fri, 9/5/08, Mike Tintner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Again - v. briefly - it's a reality - nondeterministic
> programming is a
> reality, so there's no material, mechanistic, software
> problem in getting a
> machine to decide either way.
This is inherently dualistic to say this. On one hand you're calling it a
'reality' and on the other you're denying the influence of material or
mechanism. What exactly is deciding then, a soul? How do you get one of those
into an AI?
> Yes, strictly, a nondeterministic *program* can be regarded
> as a
> contradiction - i.e. a structured *series* of instructions
> to decide freely.
At some point you will have to explain how this "deciding freely" works. As of
now, all you have done is name it.
> The way the human mind is "programmed" is that
> we are not only free, and
> have to, *decide* either way about certain decisions, but
> we are also free
> to *think* about it - i.e. to decide metacognitively
> whether and how we
> decide at all - we continually "decide." for
> example, to put off the
> decision till later.
There is an entire school of thought, quite mainstream now, in cognitive
science that says that what appears to be "free will" is an illusion. Of
course, you can say that you are free to choose whatever you like, but that
only speaks to the strength of the illusion - that in itself is not enough to
disprove the claim.
In fact, it is plain to see that if you do not commit yourself to this view
(free will as illusion), you are either a dualist, or you must invoke some kind
of probabilistic mechanism (as some like Penrose have done by saying that the
free-will buck stops at the level of quantum mechanics).
So, Mike, is free will:
1) an illusion based on some kind of unpredictable, complex but *deterministic*
interaction of physical components
2) the result of probabilistic physics - a *non-deterministic* interaction
described by something like quantum mechanics
3) the expression of our god-given spirit, or some other non-physical mover of
physical things
> By contrast, all deterministic/programmed machines and
> computers are
> guaranteed to complete any task they begin. (Zero
> procrastination or
> deviation). Very different kinds of machines to us. Very
> different paradigm.
> (No?)
I think the difference of paradigm between computers and humans is not that one
is deterministic and one isn't, but rather that one is a paradigm of top-down,
serialized control, and the other is bottom-up, massively parallel, and
emergent. It comes down to design vs. emergence.
Terren
-------------------------------------------
agi
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