Ben,
Ah well, then I'm confused. And you may be right - I would just like
clarification.
You see, what you have just said is consistent with my understanding of Pei up
till now. He explicitly called his approach in the past "nonalgorithmic" while
acknowledging that others wouldn't consider it so. It was only nonalgorithmic
in the sense that the "algortihm" or problemsolving procedure had the potential
to keep changing every time - but there was still (as I think we'd both agree)
a definite procedure/algorithm each time.
This current paper seems to represent a significant departure from that. There
doesn't seem to be an algorithm or procedure to start with, and it does seem to
represent a challenge to your conception of AGI design. But I may have
misunderstood (which is easy if there are no examples :) ) - and perhaps you
or, better still, Pei, would care to clarify.
Ben:
A key point IMO is that: problem-solving that is non-algorithmic (in Pei's
sense) at one level (the level of the particular problem being solved) may
still be algorithmic at a different level (for instance, NARS itself is a set
of algorithms).
So, to me, calling NARS problem-solving non-algorithmic is a bit odd...
though not incorrect according to the definitions Pei lays out...
AGI design then **is** about designing algorithms (such as the NARS
algorithms) that enable an AI system to solve problems in both algorithmic and
non-algorithmic ways...
ben
On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 8:51 PM, Mike Tintner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Ben,
I'm only saying that CPS seems to be loosely equivalent to wicked,
ill-structured problem-solving, (the reference to convergent/divergent (or
crystallised vs fluid) etc is merely to point out a common distinction in
psychology between two kinds of intelligence that Pei wasn't aware of in the
past - which is actually loosely equivalent to the distinction between narrow
AI and general AI problemsolving).
In the end, what Pei is/isn't aware of in terms of general knowledge,
doesn't matter much - don't you think that his attempt to do without
algorithms IS v. important? And don't you think any such attempt would be
better off referring explicitly to the literature on wicked, ill-structured
problems?
I don't think that pointing all this out is silly - this (a non-algorithmic
approach to CPS/wicked/whatever) is by far the most important thing currently
being discussed here - and potentially, if properly developed, revolutionary..
Worth getting excited about, no?
(It would also be helpful BTW to discuss the "wicked" literature because it
actually has abundant examples of wicked problems - and those, you must admit,
are rather hard to come by here ).
Ben: TITLE: Case-by-case Problem Solving (draft)
AUTHOR: Pei Wang
....
But you seem to be reinventing the term for wheel. There is an
extensive literature, including AI stuff, on "wicked, ill-structured" problems,
(and even "nonprogrammed decisionmaking" which won't, I suggest, be replaced
by "case-by-case PS". These are well-established terms. You similarly seemed
to be unaware of the v. common distinction between convergent & divergent
problem-solving.
Mike, I have to say I find this mode of discussion fairly silly..
Pei has a rather comprehensive knowledge of AI and a strong knowledge of
cog-sci as well. It is obviously not the case that he is unaware of these
terms and ideas you are referring to.
Obviously, what he means by "case-by-case problem solving" is NOT the
same as "nonprogrammed decisionmaking" nor "divergent problem-solving."
In his paper, he is presenting a point of view, not seeking to compare
this point of view to the whole corpus of literature and ideas that he has
absorbed during his lifetime.
I happen not to fully agree with Pei's thinking on these topics (though I
like much of it), but I know Pei well enough to know that those. places where
his thinking diverges from mine, are *not* due to ignorance of the literature
on his part...
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Ben Goertzel, PhD
CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC
Director of Research, SIAI
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must be first
overcome " - Dr Samuel Johnson
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