Regarding the uncertainty principal, Wikipedia says:
"In quantum physics, the Heisenberg uncertainty principle states that the values of certain pairs of conjugate variables (position and momentum, for instance) cannot both be known with arbitrary precision. That is, the more precisely one variable is known, the less precisely the other is known. THIS IS NOT A STATEMENT ABOUT THE LIMITATIONS OF A RESEARCHER'S ABILITY TO MEASURE PARTICULAR QUANTITIES OF A SYSTEM, BUT RATHER ABOUT THE NATURE OF THE SYSTEM ITSELF." (emphasis added.) I am sure you know more about quantum mechanics than I do. But I have heard many say the uncertainty controls limits not just on scientific measurement, but the amount of information different parts of reality can have about each other when computing in response to each other. Perhaps such theories are wrong, but they are not without support in the field. With regard to the statement "science can never provide evidence in favor of infinite mechanisms" I though you were saying there was no way the human mind could fully represent or fully understand an infinite mechanism --- which I agree with. You were correct in thinking that I did not grok that you were implying this means if an infinite mechanism exited there could be no evidence in favor of it infinity. In fact, it is not clear that this is the case, if you use "provide evidence" considerably more loosely than "provide proof" for. Until the advent of quantum mechanics and/or the theory of the expanding universe, based in part on observations and in part intuitions derived from them, many people felt the universe was infinitely continuous and/or of infinite extent in space and time. I agree you would probably never be able to prove infinite realities, but the mind is capable of conceiving of them, and of seeing evidence that might suggest to some their existence, such as was suggested to Einstein, who for many years I have been told believed in a universe that was infinite in time. Ed Porter -----Original Message----- From: Ben Goertzel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 9:09 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: >> RE: FW: [agi] A paper that actually does solve the problem of consciousness > But quantum theory does appear to be directly related to limits of the > computations of physical reality. The uncertainty theory and the > quantization of quantum states are limitations on what can be computed by > physical reality. Not really. They're limitations on what measurements of physical reality can be simultaneously made. Quantum systems can compute *exactly* the class of Turing computable functions ... this has been proved according to standard quantum mechanics math. however, there are some things they can compute faster than any Turing machine, in the average case but not the worst case. > But, I am old fashioned enough to be more interested in things about the > brain and AGI that are supported by what would traditionally be considered > "scientific evidence" or by what can be reasoned or designed from such > evidence. > > If there is any thing that would fit under those headings to support the > notion of the brain either being infinite, or being an antenna that receives > decodable information from some infinite-information-content source, I would > love to hear it. the key point of the blog post you didn't fully grok, was a careful argument that (under certain, seemingly reasonable assumptions) science can never provide evidence in favor of infinite mechanisms... ben g ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=120640061-aded06 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
