I am reluctant to say this, but I am not sure if I actually understand what Mike is getting at. He described a number of logical (in the greater sense of being reasonable and structured) methods by which one could achieve some procedural goal, and then he declares that logic (in this greater sense that I believe acknowledged) was incapable of achieving it.
Let's take a flying house. I have to say that there was a very great chance that I misunderstood what Mike was saying, since I believe that he effectively said that a computer program, using logically derived systems could not come to the point where it could creatively draw a picture of a flying house like a child might. If that was what he was saying then it is very strange. Obviously, one could program a computer to draw a flying house. So right away, his point must have been under stated, because that means that a computer program using computer logic (somewhere within this greater sense of the term) could follow a program designed to get it to draw a flying house. So right away, Mike's challenge can't be taken seriously. If we can use logical design to get the computer program to draw a flying house, we can find more creative ways to get it to the same point. Do you understand what I am saying? You aren't actually going to challenge me to write a rather insipid program that will draw a flying house for you are you? You accept the statement that I could do that if I wanted to right? If you do accept that statement, then you should be able to accept the fact that I could also write a more elaborate computer program to do the same thing, only it might, for example, do so only after the words "house" and "flying" were input. I think you understand that I could write a slightly more elaborate computer program to do the something like that. Ok, now I could keep making it more complicated and eventually I could get to the point where where it could take parts of pictures that it was exposed to and draw them in more creative combinations. If it was exposed to pictures of airplanes flying, and if it was exposed to pictures of houses, it might,. through quasi random experimentation try drawing a picture of the airplane flying past the house as if the house was an immense mountain, and then it might try some clouds as landscaping for the house and then it might try a cloud with a driveway, garbage can and a chimney, and eventually it might even draw a picture of a house with wings. All I need to do that is to use some shape detecting algorithms that have been developed for graphics programs and are used all the time by graphic artists that can approximately determine the shape of the house and airplane in the different pictures and then it would just be a matter of time before it could (and would) try to draw a flying house. Which step do you doubt, or did I completely misunderstand you? 1. I could (I hope I don't have to) write a program that could draw a flying house. 2. I could make it slightly more elaborate so, for example, that it would only draw the flying house if the words 'house' and 'flying' were input. 3. I could vary the program in many other ways. Now suppose that I showed you one of these programs. After that I could make it more complicated so that it went through a slightly more creative process than the program you saw the previous time. 4. I could continue to make the program more and more complicated. I could, (with a lot of graphics techniques that I know about but haven't actually mastered) write the program so that if it was exposed to pictures of houses and to pictures of flying, would have the ability to eventually draw a picture of a flying house (along with a lot of other creative efforts that you have not) even thought of. But the thing is, that I can do this without using advanced AGI techniques! So, I must retain the recognition that I may not have been able to understand you because what you are saying is not totally reasonable to me. Jim Bromer ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=126863270-d7b0b0 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
