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________________________________
From: David Jones <[email protected]>
To: agi <[email protected]>
Sent: Sun, July 18, 2010 3:10:12 PM
Subject: Re: [agi] Of definitions and tests of AGI

If you can't convince someone, clearly something is wrong with it. I don't 
think 
a "test" is the right way to do this. Which is why I haven't commented much. 
When you understand how to create AGI, it will be obvious that it is AGI or 
that 
it is what you intend it to be. You'll then understand how what you have built 
fits into the bigger scheme of things. There is no such point at which you can 
say something is "AGI" and not "AGI". Intelligence is a very subjective thing 
that really depends on your goals. Someone will always say it is not good 
enough. But if it really works, people will quickly realize it based on results.

What you want is to develop a system that can learn about the world or its 
environment in a general way so that it can solve arbitrary problems, be able 
to 
plan in general ways, act in general ways and perform the types of goals you 
want it to perform. 


Dave


On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 3:03 PM, deepakjnath <[email protected]> wrote:

So if I have a system that is close to AGI, I have no way of really knowing it 
right? 

>
>Even if I believe that my system is a true AGI there is no way of convincing 
>the 
>others irrefutably that this system is indeed a AGI not just an advanced AI 
>system.
>
>I have read the toy box problem and rock wall problem, but not many people 
>will 
>still be convinced I am sure.
>
>I wanted to know that if there is any consensus on a general problem which can 
>be solved and only solved by a true AGI. Without such a test bench how will we 
>know if we are moving closer or away from our quest. There is no map.
>
>Deepak
>
>
>
>
>
>On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 11:50 PM, Mike Tintner <[email protected]> 
wrote:
>
>I realised that what is needed is a *joint*  definition *and*  range of tests 
>of 
>AGI.
>> 
>>Benamin Johnston has submitted one valid test - the  toy box problem. (See 
>>archives).
>> 
>>I have submitted another still simpler valid test -  build a rock wall from 
>>rocks given, (or fill an earth hole with  rocks).
>> 
>>However, I see that there are no valid definitions  of AGI that explain what 
>>AGI 
>>is generally , and why these tests are indeed  AGI. Google - there are v. few 
>>defs. of AGI or Strong AI, period.
>> 
>>The most common: AGI is human-level intelligence -   is an 
>>embarrassing non-starter - what distinguishes human  intelligence? No 
>>explanation offered.
>> 
>>The other two are also inadequate if not as bad:  Ben's "solves a variety of 
>>complex problems in a variety of complex  environments". Nope, so does  a 
>>multitasking narrow AI. Complexity does not  distinguish AGI. Ditto Pei's - 
>>something to do with "insufficient knowledge and  resources..."    
>>"Insufficient" is open to narrow AI  interpretations and reducible to 
>>mathematically calculable probabilities.or  uncertainties. That doesn't 
>>distinguish AGI from narrow AI.
>> 
>>The one thing we should all be able to agree on  (but who can be sure?) is 
>that:
>> 
>>** an AGI is a general intelligence system,  capable of independent learning**
>> 
>>i.e. capable of independently learning new  activities/skills with minimal 
>>guidance or even, ideally, with zero guidance (as  humans and animals are) - 
>>and 
>>thus acquiring a "general", "all-round" range of  intelligence..  
>>
>> 
>>This is an essential AGI goal -  the capacity  to keep entering and mastering 
>>new domains of both mental and physical skills  WITHOUT being specially 
>>programmed each time - that crucially distinguishes it  from narrow AI's, 
>>which 
>>have to be individually programmed anew for each new  task. Ben's AGI dog 
>>exemplified this in a v simple way -  the dog is  supposed to be able to 
>>learn 
>>to fetch a ball, with only minimal instructions, as  real dogs do - they can 
>>learn a whole variety of new skills with minimal  instruction.  But I am 
>>confident Ben's dog can't actually do  this.
>> 
>>However, the independent learning def. while  focussing on the distinctive 
>>AGI 
>>goal,  still is not detailed enough by  itself.
>> 
>>It requires further identification of the  **cognitive operations** which 
>>distinguish AGI,  and wh. are exemplified by  the above tests.
>> 
>>[I'll stop there for interruptions/comments &  continue another time].
>> 
>> P.S. Deepakjnath,
>> 
>>It is vital to realise that the overwhelming  majority of AGI-ers do not * 
>>want* 
>>an AGI test -  Ben has never gone near  one, and is merely typical in this 
>>respect. I'd put almost all AGI-ers here in  the same league as the US banks, 
>>who only want mark-to-fantasy rather than  mark-to-market tests of their 
>>assets.
>>agi | Archives  | Modify Your Subscription  
>
>
>-- 
>cheers,
>Deepak
>
>agi | Archives  | Modify Your Subscription  

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