Please explain/expound freely why you're not "convinced" - and indicate what 
you expect,  - and I'll reply - but it may not be till tomorrow.

Re your last point, there def. is no consensus on a general problem/test OR a 
def. of AGI.  

One flaw in your expectations seems to be a desire for a single test -  almost 
by definition, there is no such thing as 

a) a single test - i.e. there should be at least a dual or serial test - having 
passed any given test, like the rock/toy test, the AGI must be presented with a 
new "adjacent" test for wh. it has had no preparation,  like say building with 
cushions or sand bags or packing with fruit. (and neither rock/toy test state 
that clearly)

b) one kind of test - this is an AGI, so it should be clear that if it can pass 
one kind of test, it has the basic potential to go on to many different kinds, 
and it doesn't really matter which kind of test you start with - that is partly 
the function of having a good.definition of AGI .


From: deepakjnath 
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 8:03 PM
To: agi 
Subject: Re: [agi] Of definitions and tests of AGI


So if I have a system that is close to AGI, I have no way of really knowing it 
right? 

Even if I believe that my system is a true AGI there is no way of convincing 
the others irrefutably that this system is indeed a AGI not just an advanced AI 
system.

I have read the toy box problem and rock wall problem, but not many people will 
still be convinced I am sure.

I wanted to know that if there is any consensus on a general problem which can 
be solved and only solved by a true AGI. Without such a test bench how will we 
know if we are moving closer or away from our quest. There is no map.

Deepak




On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 11:50 PM, Mike Tintner <[email protected]> wrote:

  I realised that what is needed is a *joint* definition *and*  range of tests 
of AGI.

  Benamin Johnston has submitted one valid test - the toy box problem. (See 
archives).

  I have submitted another still simpler valid test - build a rock wall from 
rocks given, (or fill an earth hole with rocks).

  However, I see that there are no valid definitions of AGI that explain what 
AGI is generally , and why these tests are indeed AGI. Google - there are v. 
few defs. of AGI or Strong AI, period.

  The most common: AGI is human-level intelligence -  is an embarrassing 
non-starter - what distinguishes human intelligence? No explanation offered.

  The other two are also inadequate if not as bad: Ben's "solves a variety of 
complex problems in a variety of complex environments". Nope, so does  a 
multitasking narrow AI. Complexity does not distinguish AGI. Ditto Pei's - 
something to do with "insufficient knowledge and resources..."    
"Insufficient" is open to narrow AI interpretations and reducible to 
mathematically calculable probabilities.or uncertainties. That doesn't 
distinguish AGI from narrow AI.

  The one thing we should all be able to agree on (but who can be sure?) is 
that:

  ** an AGI is a general intelligence system, capable of independent learning**

  i.e. capable of independently learning new activities/skills with minimal 
guidance or even, ideally, with zero guidance (as humans and animals are) - and 
thus acquiring a "general", "all-round" range of intelligence..  

  This is an essential AGI goal -  the capacity to keep entering and mastering 
new domains of both mental and physical skills WITHOUT being specially 
programmed each time - that crucially distinguishes it from narrow AI's, which 
have to be individually programmed anew for each new task. Ben's AGI dog 
exemplified this in a v simple way -  the dog is supposed to be able to learn 
to fetch a ball, with only minimal instructions, as real dogs do - they can 
learn a whole variety of new skills with minimal instruction.  But I am 
confident Ben's dog can't actually do this.

  However, the independent learning def. while focussing on the distinctive AGI 
goal,  still is not detailed enough by itself.

  It requires further identification of the **cognitive operations** which 
distinguish AGI,  and wh. are exemplified by the above tests.

  [I'll stop there for interruptions/comments & continue another time].

   P.S. Deepakjnath,

  It is vital to realise that the overwhelming majority of AGI-ers do not * 
want* an AGI test -  Ben has never gone near one, and is merely typical in this 
respect. I'd put almost all AGI-ers here in the same league as the US banks, 
who only want mark-to-fantasy rather than mark-to-market tests of their assets.
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-- 
cheers,
Deepak

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