Its true that I don't care much about upholding ancient tradition. It's nomic, a game of change, and I'm very willing to see Spivak removed.
On Tuesday, August 30, 2022, Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > [I apologize in advance to others - I don't want to prolong this > further/at all, but I think the specific Agoran context is important to > lay out.] > > Madrid wrote: > > - To further illustrate how the current push for neopronouns/neolanguage > > isn't natively Spanish but (mostly) orginated in the US as a movement, > > This is an Agoran thing, not a broader language question. Back in 1993, > well before it was a big "U.S." thing, Agorans collectively decided to use > e and eir, for specific and conscious reasons. It is part of the *Agoran* > culture (if it matters, the game at the time was dominated by Aus/NZ > players, not the US). It was also out of specific respect to Grand Hero > of Agora Douglas Hofstadter, who, back in the 1980s, dedicated Scientific > American columns (the same column in which e popularized Nomic) to the > pernicious effects of inherent linguistic sexism. It was a subject e was > passionate about, and one that we found important back in the 1990s when > almost nobody else did. > > In 2017, when we had several new players, we gently corrected those > who joined, when they didn't use the lingo. Just as others have been, > including myself, for the whole history of the game. Yours is the only > response I remember that was basically "I'm going to keep using it because > my convenience as a new player is more important that your long-running > culture": > > https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/ > agora-business/2017-June/035225.html > > And nix called you out then, too: > > https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/ > agora-business/2017-June/035228.html > > After 5 years of this not getting any better. Literally no one else since > I joined again in 2001, in my memory, has had any issues once it was > explained. I'm really really tired of arguing the point, it's not why I > come here to play this game. > > Madrid wrote: > > To someone who isn't in the neopronouns/neolanguage camp, it feels like > > some external ideology (be it Sharia Law or neopronouns) barging in to > > claim that they're correct to some degree and that certain things need > > to change to a certain amount to accommodate them. > > You're partially correct, except for the key point that this is *internal* > not *external*. A voluntary group that has been running for over 27 years > is asking a single relative newcomer to respect its traditions, traditions > that were carefully thought out and defended for years when it was a weird > oddity and harder to explain. I'm glad the cultural zeitgeist has caught > up in some places. > > And no other newcomer has had issues, or if they have they've quietly > ducked out. If you want to compare that to a oppressive regime - well the > difference (and what makes it an insulting comparison) is that unlike many > under Sharia Law, you are 100% free and privileged to leave with no > consequences. > > This is just a simple matter: THIS IS HOW THIS PARTICULAR GAME IS > PLAYED. If you don't like it, there's plenty of other games to enjoy. > This one probably just isn't a good fit. > > -G. >
