I think that you don't need to ask 'hard questions' about why trans people are trans. I'm quite open about my gender and why I'm trans, but I don't think anything I have said in any way invited 'hard questions' to be posed about the subject. Sure, I have spoken from a more academic perspective about what I believe about gender and my own struggles with the subject - because I believed at that time I wouldn't receive absurd pushback from you or your ilk. I will not discuss those things again, which is actually quite sad for me because some of these people are my friends and I want to be open with my friends. There may be a forum for discussing 'hard questions' of gender and race - I believe the rest of us unanimously agree that any agora nomic forum is not it. Open discussion is one thing, but making strange insinuations about how trans women are actually men or randomly bringing up biological racial differences and blaming political correctness out of nowhere is not it, chief.
On Wed, 31 Aug 2022, 18:48 Madrid via agora-discussion, < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > Before I get dogpiled for being called a "racist" - different races, in a > very general way, have different medical needs. > > What I mainly wanted to bring up back then was that it puts those in a > racial minority at a disadvantage when general medical culture seems (often > unintentionally) catered towards a particular racial majority and > 'political correctness' silences voices that want to bring up that these > minorities generally have different inborn vulnerabilities than the > majority. It seems racist to say "darker skinned people need more sunlight > to be healthy". But it's true. I'm darker skinned myself, I want to know > these things to get the vitamin D I need! This doesn't only apply to skin > color, but ultimately, what's more important, political correctness, or > people's health? > > About trans people, I think I'm the only guy making hard questions about > the phenomenon. I curious about these things that people seem so hushed > about. Like, for example: > > Why are the vast majority of women on Agora, trans? > > Stone me, burn me on the stake, I am legitimately curious. > > On Wednesday, August 31, 2022, Sarah S. via agora-discussion < > agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 9:40 AM Sarah S. <sarahestran...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 3:32 AM Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion < > > > agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > > > >> > > >> On 8/30/2022 9:25 AM, ais523 via agora-discussion wrote: > > >> > On Tue, 2022-08-30 at 18:14 +0200, Madrid via agora-discussion > wrote: > > >> >> Its true that I don't care much about upholding ancient tradition. > > >> >> > > >> >> It's nomic, a game of change, and I'm very willing to see Spivak > > >> >> removed. > > >> > > >> [snip] > > >> > > >> > I probably wouldn't object to a widespread change to singular-they > if > > >> > the general view of the playerlist is that that would be preferable, > > >> > but it would be likely to add a little extra confusion for no real > > >> > benefit (the distinction between singular "e" and plural "they" > makes > > >> > it easier to parse what a rule is saying). > > >> > > > >> > > >> Just as a minor clarification, I'm not arguing for Spivak per se based > > on > > >> "ancient tradition" but more along the lines you suggest here, of > > >> evaluating our community standards continuously but generally > > >> respectfully. The important point for me is that this is not just an > > >> isolated quibble over a single instance of language use (and a single > > >> unfortunate comparison), but rather an inability to reach a reasonable > > >> accommodation with the current community's longstanding/currently- > > standing > > >> practices. > > >> > > >> That stuff is just exhausting and not fun in any gaming group, beyond > > any > > >> historical points or future changes. > > >> > > >> -G. > > >> > > >> I personally support spivak - any change to referring to players > always > > > by the singular 'they' would probably offend me - I'm not a they, I'm a > > > she. E/em pronouns, as something that are generally confined within the > > > game, don't annoy me in the same way that 'they' would and I enjoy our > > odd > > > little game pronouns. That said, Agora Is A Nomic and people are free > to > > > advocate changing to the use of preferred pronouns if they like - this > > > doesn't bother me particularly much when Madrid does it. I too find > them > > > odd to adapt to (and get them wrong quite often), and blognomic did > start > > > with spivak then abolish them many years ago. And yes, I do think > > > traditions ought to be questioned - a substantial majority of the > player > > > base is newer and if they choose to revise something that doesn't work > > for > > > them, they should do so. > > > > > > What bothers me rather more is Madrid's attitude to trans people and > > women > > > expressed on discord, which I think is quite consistently > > discriminatory. E > > > has also made remarks about racial differences (deleted by moderator) > > which > > > in my view were discriminatory. To be clear, I don't remotely feel > > > emotionally threatened by Madrid, nor do I feel like e > > > personally discriminates against or devalues other players including > > myself > > > - which is why I don't want to ban em. E is, perhaps unfortunately, > quite > > > good at confining these conversations to the abstract. But I do want to > > > make it clear that I think women ought not be needlessly sexualised, > > trans > > > people should be accomodated, and ideologies that approach > 'race-realism' > > > are pernicious and entirely beyond the pale. These are sentences that I > > > wouldn't think I would have to type to the agora nomic email server of > > all > > > places, but I want to make what I think clear. I think it would be > quite > > > appropriate for agora as a whole to affirm in the rules that we are a > > > diverse place and will always welcome anyone from any minority group. > > This > > > is the sort of social norm I believe it would be appropriate to > > crystallise > > > and enshrine for all time. > > > > > > > > > Upon reflection I probably shouldn't have sent this email, except perhaps > > the last two sentences. It is adding fuel that certainly didn't need to > be > > added. > > >
