Hi Brian, >>I don't consider BB as 'PriceAction' trading but that could be a personal definition.<<
I don't either that's why I said "Bollinger Bands and sound Price Action". >>I didn't see anything in Teresa's methods that I would consider to be 'scalping'.<< I know there is no universally agreed upon definition of scalping but in common usage it can mean anything from 1 or 2 ticks to 20 ticks or more. Her 1st profit target is 4 ticks which I consider a scalp. >>I don't have any use for 'scaling' in or out, simply because I believe it serves to confuse us by turning one trade into two or more trades (what is wrong with either of the trades - can't they stand up on their own?).<< I don't share your distain for scaling. I find it to be a very valuable risk management tool. My thinking on this has been greatly influenced by Joe Ross. In his book "Trading is a Business" (at 15-20 years old it is a bit dated but the principles are still valid), he recommends trading multiple contracts and taking 1st profit as soon as you can cover commission cost plus a small profit and move stop on balance to BE. He is a price action trader and if you are interested in knowing more about his trading style, some of his free articles are here: http://www.trading-naked.com/Articles_and_Reprints.htm >>I am a big believer in simplicity - when the chips are down our psychological makeup demands it.<< I agree and I think Teresa's method is simple, I can see the setups on a chart with little more than a glance. Whether or not a trading technique appeals to you or not depends on your temperament. With good money management and good trade management, a good trader can make almost any entry method work. Bill --- In [email protected], "brian_z111" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Bill, > > I am all for people following their rainbow go for it. > > Some contrary opinions, with the intent encouraging some thought > around the subjects: > > > The method is based on Bollinger Bands and sound Price Action > >techniques. > > > > I don't consider BB as 'PriceAction' trading but that could be a > personal definition. > > > The author uses a scaling out trade management style which combines > > the low risk/high win percentage of scalping with larger profit > > potential of swing trading > > I didn't see anything in Teresa's methods that I would consider to > be 'scalping'. > > I don't have any use for 'scaling' in or out, simply because I > believe it serves to confuse us by turning one trade into two or more > trades (what is wrong with either of the trades - can't they stand up > on their own?). > > I am a big believer in simplicity - when the chips are down our > psychological makeup demands it. > > > Based on my examination of various charts from 5 mins to weekly, the > > technique seems sound with profits about 75% of the time. > > I have tested 2, or more, of the components involved in this system > and spent a deal of time mulling over this time of thing and I don't > think they work - I no longer test systems like this - based on past > experience I make a discretionary decision to pass them by. > > > As far as the authors commercial website goes, I have no interest in > > it and I believe most members of this group have no interest in it. > > Just because someone is a trading educator does not mean they cannot > > trade but even if the author is the worst trader in the world, that > > does not mean this method does not produce profits. You have to > judge > > the method on its own merits not based on who is describing it. > > Money isn't a four letter word - we need good businesses and good > business people - they are a pleasure to deal with and make the world > a better place. > > It is a fallacy that successful traders will never teach (why do they > need to sell it). > > IMO they will seldom teach for various reasons but sometimes there > are reasons why they do (some of them are good reasons) e.g. > > - they value fame as much, or more than fortune > - they like to share and help others > - they want a second income stream > - they get bored with trading (I myself am a little tired of having > my bum in an office chair and I am cutting back on non-essential > computer/internet time) - after x years of successful trading they > might have had enough and turn their hand to another facet of the > game etc > > It is rare but it does happen e.g. there is an Aussie educator, who > claims to be a successful future trader who teaches 10 students at a > time for 10K a year. > > His story is that one day his wife came home in the late afternoon > and he was trading and still in his pajamas - he realized that he was > a person who needed social contact, as well as a successful trading > career and he sought out an association with a training company. > > It is conceivable that this could be a true story. > > The reality of trading doesn't match the fantasy and some people who > make it are just not cut out for the social isolation. > > The other side of the coin is that the msjority of people who set out > to become pro traders do not make it. > > The vast majority of trading touts either didn't make it or didn't > even try to make it in the first place. > > brian_z > > > --- In [email protected], "bilbo0211" <wjdandreta@> wrote: > > > > Hi scourt2000, > > > > I don't disagree with most of what you said but I think you are > > misrepresenting the described trading technique. > > > > The method is based on Bollinger Bands and sound Price Action > techniques. > > > > The stop is not a fixed amount, it is placed 1 tick beyond the > > opposite extreme of the entry bar, a standard Price Action > technique. > > > > There are 3 sample trades discussed. > > > > 1st: initial stop size 1.5, 1/2 off at 1.0 pts, other half off at > 3.25 > > pts, total for trade = 4.25 pts. > > > > 2nd: initial stop size 1.75, 1/2 off at 1.0 pts, other half off at > BE, > > total for trade = 1.0 pts. > > > > 3rd: initial stop size 1.5, 1/2 off at 1.0 pts, other half off at > 3.0 > > pts, total for trade = 4.0 pts. > > > > This is not in agreement with your comments about the method. > > > > The author uses a scaling out trade management style which combines > > the low risk/high win percentage of scalping with larger profit > > potential of swing trading. > > > > Based on my examination of various charts from 5 mins to weekly, the > > technique seems sound with profits about 75% of the time. > > > > I would not have made this post if I thought the system did not have > > potential. Everything must be thoroughly tested before trading with > > real money (including simulation trading). Anything else it just > gambling. > > > > As far as the authors commercial website goes, I have no interest in > > it and I believe most members of this group have no interest in it. > > Just because someone is a trading educator does not mean they cannot > > trade but even if the author is the worst trader in the world, that > > does not mean this method does not produce profits. You have to > judge > > the method on its own merits not based on who is describing it. > > > > Bill > > > > --- In [email protected], "scourt2000" <stevehite@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > If you follow the link to its conclusion and find the original > author's > > > website, take a look at her trading stats this week on the ES. > She's > > > got 7 years futures trading experience and she's taking 2 pt stop > > > losses and half-offs at 1 pt? That's not good. > > > > > > With a good edge, you can expect to daytrade the ES with no more > than a > > > 1.50 pt stop loss, a 1.5 to 2.0 payoff ratio and a long-term > winning > > > pct. average of 60%. > > > > > > Please, don't ever try and trade the ES with a payoff ratio of > 0.50 > > > unless you can sustain a 70% to 80% long-term winning pct because > a > > > more reasonable 60% winning pct with a 1.5 payoff ratio will make > more > > > gains than a 70%-er with a 0.50 payoff ratio with far less stress > > > involved. > > > > > > Try all the backtesting on ideas you like and you'll see a > general > > > trend in the good edges: > > > > > > 1. High winning pcts. come with < 1.0 payoff ratios. > > > 2. High payoff ratios come with low winning pcts. > > > 3. Systems in the 50-65% winning pct. window come with 1.5 to 2.0 > > > payoff ratios. > > > > > > And, by the way, I'm speaking to the 2-3 ES contract and 1-2 ER2 > > > contract traders out there trying to make a living at this, not > any of > > > you who consider yourself big fishes where you play games with > > > unreasonable stop losses and averaging down in your positions. > > > > > > Just be careful of people freely giving you an edge and then > turns > > > around and has a website-for-profit to "teach" you how to be > a "market > > > winner". Because I take one look at her money management, > knowing > > > full well what's doable on daytrading the ES/ER2 for 5 years, and > it > > > becomes obvious why she's got a secondary service to teach. > > > > > > Realistically, it takes anywhere from 2 to 4 years to get good > > > (definition: you make a living just with your trading) at futures > > > trading, depending upon how messed up your emotional insides were > when > > > you started. Most drop out within 2 years due to bad money > management > > > and continually trading with bad edges because they believed too > much > > > in some other person trying to sell them on their methods instead > of > > > believing in themselves and learning to trust their own > experiences > > > over what anyone else had to say. > > > > > > [I'm not into back-and-forths when I speak from the heart like > this. I > > > could be wrong, but after 5 years of facing the ES and ER2 in > real- > > > time, discretionary daytrading, I highly doubt it.] > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "bilbo0211" <wjdandreta@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/eminis/commentary/favorite_strateg > y/ > > > Eminis-Teresa-Appleton.cfm > > > > > > > > I have not back tested it but checked it on a variety of charts > and it > > > > seems to work quite well to get at least a scalp. In a strong > trend it > > > > generates very few signals but intraday strong trends that last > all > > > > day are rare. > > > > > > > > If I get time, I will back test it and post the results. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > >
