~yes~ Also, once you realize the true nature of our "virtual" reality, you can start playing with Monopoly money.
~dennis On Aug 4, 2008, at 8:38 PM, brian_z111 wrote: > FTR > I don't know how people can tranlate this into applied Trading > Psychology but to set the record straight. > > Re the relevance of spirituality/personal development to trading: > > Using Indian spiritual philosophy as the example. > > There is no single philosophy but rather a myriad of inter-related > and sometimes conflicting ones. > However, as a generalisation, the ideals of Indian spirituality are > passive (to a Westerner) and can be summarised as: > > - Man is a small replica of God (potentially) > - the goal is to sublimate the mind of Man to the mind of God (Yoga > is the union of Man-God) > - various practices are used to faclitate this (meditation, prayer, > singing/chanting, dancing etc) > - permanancy of the union is a long and difficult goal, seldom > achieved > - temporary intimacy with the Gods, achieved via spiritual practices, > TRANSFORMS the practitioner and hence their culture > - psyhic powers (Siddhi) are a byproduct and considered a distraction > and/or dangerous > - worldly success is considered somewhat of lesser value than > spiritual success > > "From the Unreal lead me to the Real". > > Once again these are gross simplifications which have been vigorously > debated for thousands of years. > > Western spirituality is active. > We seek to "petition the Lord" to intervene in our lifes/culture and > to give us the Power(s), ostensibly to do his work. > > In both cases the spiritual path is the same, except that the > emphasis is different, however all variations on the theme are > operative in both cultures, via their sub-cultures. > > > Applying this to trading: > > Will adopting spiritual practices, say meditation, or prayer, make me > a better trader? > > Is there any correspondence between the transcendental consciousness > of meditation/prayer and the mindset that successful traders have > (assuming there is such a thing as a common identifiable traders > mindset)? > > Possibly. > > In my own experience, if I had any advantages in this area when I > started out trading i.e. I did "know myself" before I started > trading, I still had to get to know the markets, TA, my broker, data > provider and software etc as well. > > > Re 'Positive Thinking' and 'The Power of The Mind' > > This has been borrowed from spiritual teachings (power of Prayer etc). > > This is an application of a limited part of spirituality, and without > the attendant ethics etc it can bring about Worldly Success but that > doesn't neccessarily equate to Life Success i.e. it is a partial > spiritual practice without the full experience or spiritual knowledge. > > > Is there a mindset that successful traders have (as claimed by Mark > Douglas "In The Trading Zone")? > > Possibly, or Mark could have just found a good way to make some money > OR be projecting his personal needs/worldview onto the trading world. > > As a hypothesis (a lot of traders say that trading changed the way > they think i.e trading changed THEM). > > In my experience we tend to: > > - spend more and more time alone in the trading room > - spend less and less time 'socialising' > - spend long hours focused on single issues > - our trading rooms are sensory deprived environments > - undertake intensive problem solving/creative tasks > - are confronted by our extreme emotional states etc > > It is possible that intense traders could eperience trading as > personally transformative under those conditions and that they do > experience, or even cultivate, altered consciousness (to some extent) > while actively engaged in trading. > > Based on the above is there anything we can do to facilitate trading > success? > > Sticking my neck out I predict super succesful traders would have > some of the following habits/qualities: > > - they use positive thinking, either consciously or otherwise (they > almost certainly set goals) > - they have self-confidence or self-esteem (if they don't have it > when they start out they acquire it) > - they are psychologically mature & comfortable in their skins > (through other life experiences - not necessarily only acquired > through academic success) > - at some time in their life they have read or thought about the > psychology of life/trading but it is not really a prominent part of > their daily thinking (they tend to do it rather than think about it) > - they are not very concerned with defining their style or over > defining their trading > - they have rituals (the way the office is setup, the time of the day > they do certain things) and they do things in order (download data, > scan, add to watchlist etc ) > - they have one trade that they do over and over (probably they have > some spare trades up their sleeve) > - they have practised their one trade over and over (like a golf > swing == 10000 repetitions) > - they will be biased to simplicity and only add complexity where > they are forced to > - if they have more than one trade they will use it in a different > time and place (unless it is part of a portfolio approach) > - they don't consider their trade perfect i.e. others might have > something better but it works for them and they are satisfied with it > - their trade is very personal (like a favourite son or daughter) > - possibly they don't like to talk about trading, even the extroverts > probably become trading introverts (the trading ego is like an alter > ego that they put on and take off as they enter and leave the trading > room) > - they don't like interruptions while trading > - trading talk is noise to them > - they are not as interested in buying things as they used to be > except stuff for their trading environment (new computers, software > etc) > > Anybody recognise themselves in there anywhere? > > On a slightly different note: > > It is rather funny logic that we would think that all of the traders > who are 'in the zone' are discretionary traders and that all of the > other traders don't have the right stuff OR that there is only > discretionary trading versus mechanical trading. > > Anyway, any trader who is consistently successful has the right > mindset even if they/we can't define it. > > BTW I am not an authority on anything I just aim to share some > opinions that others may find authoritive if there is any truth in > them. > > brian_z *:-) > > > --- In [email protected], "brian_z111" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> Jan, >> >> 100,000 repetitions indeed! >> >> Quite correct. >> >> >> >> However on the subject of 'mindNOT' and Samadhi etc. >> >> There are a lot of misconceptions floating around in the > west/modern >> culture, on these subjects, because of the mis-interpretation of > the >> spiritual tenents of our BROTHERS OF THE EAST by unqualified and >> unauthorised 'teachers'. >> >> There is a dirth of true spiritual teachers in the West, for > reasons >> that I won't go into. >> >> You are mixing up two different principles. >> >> In symbolic terms: >> >> CONSCIOUSNESS wears the CROWN. >> The objective NOT is the subjective ALL (THE LOGOS). >> >> You are confusing the "Son of God" with our "Heavenly Father" >> >> In general Kharma Yoga is the method for the west/modern culture == >> the SOUL as an active principle == GOOD WORKS >> >> Pragmatically: >> >> Don't be concerned about NoMind - it is not for most of us - a very >> abstract subject beyond the ken of the majority. >> >> NoMind != mindlessness >> >> You can't achieve it because it is not there to be achieved in the >> way that you are conceiving it. >> >> Intuition is what we should be concerned with. >> >> Intuition is not mind reading OR an inferior psychic faculty i.e. >> inferior to the Concete Mind (objective logic). >> It is not the sixth sense, although we experience it as if it is. >> It should be more correctly known as super-rationality. >> It is our higher mind (also know as the Higher Self, the OverSoul, >> The Solar Angel, Abstract Mind, Manas). >> It bridges the gap between Heaven and Earth. >> >> In trading it is most appropriately used along the lines > of 'positive >> thinking', the 'power of the mind', 'untapped levels of >> consciousness' etc which is the popular form of it in the USA where >> it is a pseudo-religion (the reason for that is that it is so > aligned >> to the methods that are appropriate for the times). >> >> These methods are safe to use but it is very unfortunate if the >> admonition to do GOOD WORKS doesn't accompany them. >> >> >> In your case; you and your trading are working well and if it ain't >> broke don't fix it. >> >> Forget your search for the spiritual Holy Grail of NoMind - that is >> an impossible dream because it doesn't exist. >> >> I wouldn't worry about your personal spiritual welfare - you seem > to >> be sitting quite pretty. >> >> brian_z *:-) >> >> >> >> >> >> --- In [email protected], "Jan Malmberg" <jan@> wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Well, I had 6 years of martial arts training, where I understood >> (but >>> unfortunately not yet attained) the principle of "no-mind" when >> executing >>> tasks. I have also had some limited time as a military > instructor, >> and it >>> became obvious that during patrol and combat, when people fire at >> you >>> (blanks and smoke grenades, but still), there ones who make it > are >> the ones >>> who do not take the time to think. >>> >>> >>> >>> However, ones ability to enter this state of mind is dependent on >> having >>> enough training so that you subconsciously know that you really > do >> not have >>> to think about how to move and shoot properly. >>> >>> >>> >>> Of the Tekki Shodan pattern, the ancient warriors said something > to >> the >>> effect of "Most patterns require at least 10 000 executions > before >> being >>> mastered. However, you should not even consider demonstrating > Tekki >> Shodan >>> to your master before you have had 100 000 repetitions." >>> >>> >>> >>> It is interesting to note that to reach the original state of > mind >> while >>> carrying out un-natural activities, you do need lots of training, >> and that >>> some things in every field are a lot more difficult than the >> average task in >>> that skill set. >>> >>> >>> >>> Best regards / JM >>> >>> >>> >>> _____ >>> >>> Från: [email protected] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> För >>> brian_z111 >>> Skickat: den 1 augusti 2008 05:32 >>> Till: [email protected] >>> Ämne: Re: SV: [amibroker] Anyone actually making money? >>> >>> >>> >>>> 3. Level of spiritual attainment. >>> >>> Semantics plays a part in any discussion, especially when we are >>> crossing cultures etc. It plays a greater role in 'spiritual' >>> discussion than it does in any other. >>> >>> So, first the semantics. >>> >>> We are not limited to the term 'spirituality' as we can talk > around >>> the same area in many different terms (objective mind/subjective >>> mind, rational/intuitive, super-consciousness, super-rationality >> the >>> collective unconscious, God, the Soul, the Divine, the Supreme > and >>> millions more). >>> >>> For ease of discussion I will stick with 'spirituality'. >>> >>> A few basic points: >>> >>> - generally the 'spiritual gene' is latent in humanity, across > all >>> cultures >>> - it is more virile in a small % >>> - it is particularly latent in the West/modern culture where we >> have >>> turned our back on our spirituality >>> - I dare say this forum has more than its share of latent >>> spirituality under the surface >>> - the psychic opposites are not antagonistic forces e.g. soul >> versus >>> body but rather a complimentary whole so that is not a matter of >>> logic/programming trading versus intuitive/discretionary trading. >> We >>> are all using both, at different times and places, even those who >>> deny it (there is no such thing as a 100% objective/rational >> person). >>> - a healthy psyche has a good balance and flows between each >> psychic >>> pole in its own season. >>> >>> The main pragmatic points: >>> >>> - we can't bootstrap our subjective mind so we have to turn to >>> mentors for written or oral teaching >>> - some have more aptitude for it than others >>> - I was very priviliged to have some experience in these matters >> long >>> before I started trading (my subjective consciousness/soul was >>> already active and able to express itself in the world) but it >> still >>> took years of pragmatic, practical, objective work to 'program' > the >>> trading mind to match i.e. I had to pass a sufficient number of >>> exams, in the core units, at the 'University of Trading', before > I >>> could 'enter the trading zone'. >>> >>> In laymans terms, my intuitive mind was functioning but I still > had >>> to go out and tediously train my rational/objective mind, and > learn >>> as many of the objective rules of trading as I could, before the >>> subjective and the objective minds could synchronize in the > trading >>> room. >>> >>> "Give unto Caeser that which is Caesers AND give homage to your >> God". >>> >>> brian_z >>> >>> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:amibroker%40yahoogroups.com> >> ps.com, "Jan >>> Malmberg" <jan@> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I sometimes daytrade using even delayed data for the charts, > and >> a >>> list >>>> compiled list stored in my broker's web application. It works >>> alright. Most >>>> of the time I do short-to-mid-term swing trading. With just the >> 15- >>> min >>>> delayed data. Ok, real-time for the indexes. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Here's my opinion. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The three components that determine your success are usually: >>>> >>>> 1. Level of analysis. How good you can produce low-risk entries >>> with a >>>> probable future outcome, which of course is never totally >> possible. >>>> 2. Level of money management. How much you bet on one single >>> trade, how >>>> well you scale in, scale out, set and stick to stop-orders, and >>> more. >>>> 3. Level of spiritual attainment. How much you have attained the >>>> "no-mind" state of the ancient warriors and spiritually > achieved >>> people. >>>> Which means that you fearlessly execute trades while > maintaining a >>>> risk-appropriate behavior. Only really possible when you no >> longer >>> fear the >>>> horrible market and what it might do to you. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Which one is most important? The one you lack the most at the >>> moment. I was >>>> fortunate to start out with fairly solid money management from >> the >>> start. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Best regards / JM >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _____ >>>> >>>> >>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:amibroker%40yahoogroups.com> >> ps.com >>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:amibroker%40yahoogroups.com> >> ps.com] >>> On Behalf >>>> Of Louis P. >>>> Sent: Thursday, 31 July 2008 2:15 PM >>>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:amibroker%40yahoogroups.com> >> ps.com >>>> Subject: [amibroker] Anyone actually making money? >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I was only wondering... Anyone actually making money or making > a >>> living >>>> with AB and trading? >>>> >>>> I've been working on ideas and plans for over 7 months now and >>> didn't find >>>> anything convincing yet. I've been searching daily data, then >>> hourly, >>>> 15-minute and now I am into 1-minute data and nothing seems >>> satisfying. >>>> Been searching RSI, MFI, ADX, MA, HHV, LLV... nothing seems to >> work. >>>> >>>> So... Anyone is making consistent money with this, and if so, > at >>> which >>>> timeframe and how do you do it? >>>> >>>> I'm beginning to think about switching to tick database; it > seems >>> even >>>> 1-minute is too slow for intraday trading. Anyone making money >> with >>>> 1-minute? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Louis >>>> >>> >> > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please note that this group is for discussion between users only. > > To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail directly to > SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com > > For NEW RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENTS and other news always check DEVLOG: > http://www.amibroker.com/devlog/ > > For other support material please check also: > http://www.amibroker.com/support.html > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >
