I'm not normally one to throw cold water on creative ideas, but I will put 
myself in the position of the potential manufacturer.  What any manufacturer 
would need to even contemplate this project is good answers to a few basic 
questions:

1.  Can I come up with a design to these specifications that I can sell in the 
realistic price range of the typical amateur operator?
2.  Is there a large enough market out there that I can make a profit on this 
exercise?

My guess is the manufacturers wouldn't touch this one with 3.048-meter pole 
without at least one functioning high altitude satellite on orbit.  I realize 
these are frustrating times, but I think you'll need to come up with more than 
just a wish list.  Perhaps a group could get together and prototype portions to 
make a plausible case that this can be built economically.

Can it be done?  Probably...  But those who really want it will probably need 
to invest a lot of sweat equity to prove it.

73, Ken N2WWD



-----Original Message-----
>From: "Mark L. Hammond" <[email protected]>
>Sent: Mar 1, 2010 1:55 PM
>To: MM <[email protected]>
>Cc: [email protected]
>Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Wish List, The Ideal VHF/UHF Sat Rig
>
>How about IF tap (10.7MHz) and high speed packet ready (up to say, 76k
>or faster)?
>
>(Maybe I missed it, but I don't think I saw those 2 features...)
>
>73,
>
>Mark N8MH
>
>On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 1:44 PM, MM <[email protected]> wrote:
>> My Ideal Competition Grade VHF/UHF Radio Wish list.
>>
>> It seems we are long over do for a Competition grade high performance 
>> VHF/UHF transceiver, which can also be used for Satellite operations.   
>> There are several competition grade HF transceivers on the market, however 
>> there are no high end competition grade VHF/UHF/Satellite systems on the 
>> marker.
>>
>> Most of the rigs I have seen  which support VHF/UHF are either HF rigs that 
>> have had VHF/UHF slapped on, or low end VHF/UHF rigs, with HF slapped on.
>>
>> If we want the Amateur Radio manufactures to build us a "GREAT" 
>> VHF/UHF/Satellite system, then we need to tell them what we need.
>>
>> Here are some suggestions.  Constructive comments welcome.
>>
>> This radio does not exist.
>> If the manufactures are interested in providing a new state of the art 
>> VHF/UHF radio to the Amateur Radio community, here is one opinion of what 
>> should be in next Competition Grade VHF/UHF Transceiver and what should not 
>> be in the radio.
>>
>> I am going to give this fictional radio a name HR-956-Pro.
>>
>>
>> What do we need:
>>
>> •       We need a competition grade VHF/UHF transceiver that will support 
>> Terrestrial-DX, Satellite and EME operations (Voice, CW and  Digital-JT65).
>> •       The HR-956-Pro, needs to be able to interface with modern computers 
>> (HTML Browser, USB and or CAT-5).
>> •       The HR-956-Pro, needs to able to interface with modern Externally 
>> mounted Pre-amplifier (both power feeds and transmitter sequencing).
>> •       The HR-956-Pro, need to be able to interface with modern Solid State 
>> Amplifiers and Tube based amplifiers.  The RF output per band needs to be 
>> standardized with the Amplifier manufactures to prevent transceiver and 
>> amplifier failures due to sequencing problems and RF mismatching.
>> •       TX/RX Sequencer built-in, to control external Preamps, Amplifies and 
>> other accessories (programmable).
>>
>> Receiver:
>> Of course we need a "Great" receiver, not another mediocre receiver.
>> Each receiver for each band needs to be a "Great" performer.
>>
>> No Birdies:
>> On a HF rig, a few Birdies do not usually cause serious issues, since the HF 
>> users are often listening to signals "Above" the noise floor.  On a 
>> Satellite Radio, we are often listening to signals 10-30 dB, "Below" the 
>> Noise floor.  Internally generated birdies are a serious problem for weak 
>> signal VHF/UHF operations.
>>
>> Filters:
>> Each mode will need its own selection of DSP filters.  The filters would 
>> also affect one of the Line-level outputs to the external PC.  There are 
>> times when want to send Filtered or unfiltered audio to your external PC for 
>> Digital signal processing.  One of the line-level outputs should be taped 
>> before the HR-956-Pro Filters, the other line-level output should be taped 
>> after the HR-956-Pro filters.  The TX and RX filters should be independently 
>> selectable.
>> The Filters need to be tested to verify they will support Satellite Mode-J 
>> (TX on 2-meters while listening on 435-438)
>>
>> Example:
>> FM-5k,  Filters 15k, 10k and 8k filters.
>> AM              Filters 10k, 6k, 3k, etc.
>> SSB             Filters 4.0k, 3.0k, 2.5k, 2.0k, etc.
>>
>> Other Modes:
>> CW, FM-2.5k, Data
>>
>> Audio Quality:
>> Life is too short for QRP or Poor Audio.
>> It's not the number of contacts that’s important, it’s the quality of the 
>> contact.
>> On the audio side, the HR-956-Pro needs to be able to support a wider range 
>> of audio through most of the stages.  Of course the radio needs to meet FCC 
>> and other requirements, however we can still design the radio to deliver a 
>> wider bandwidth of good sounding audio.
>> Let's shoot for 100-4000 Hz, on both TX and RX audio circuits.  This will 
>> also mean, that a better stock microphone design will be required.
>>
>>
>> VHF / UHF Bands built-in, with competition grade TX/RX:
>> 6-meters        50-54
>> 2-meters        144-148
>> 70-cm           420 - 450
>> 23-cm           1280 - 1300
>> (All frequencies localized for each country)
>>
>> Transmitter outputs:
>> A high power transceiver is less desirable than a low power transceiver.
>>
>> Let me explain:
>> For serious Terrestrial DX and EME you need to run more than 100 watts. A 
>> VHF/UHF transceiver designed for high power ( 100 watt range) transmitting, 
>> would not be compatible with third-party amplifiers or pre-amplifiers.
>>
>> Most VHF/UHF amps are designed for 25 or 50 watts maximum input.
>>
>> The manufactures of Transceivers and Amplifies need to agree upon a set of 
>> standard power level so the third-party amplifier manufactures can design 
>> properly matched Amplifiers and pre-amplifiers. This will also help reduce 
>> the number of transceiver and amplifier failures caused by mismatched RF 
>> settings.
>>
>> Suggested standards for VHF/UHF bases stations:
>> 6 Meters 50 watts
>> 2 Meters 25 watts
>> 70 cm   25 watts
>> 900 mc 10 watts
>> 1.2 gig 10 watts
>>
>> The duty cycle of the competition grade system, will also need to be greater 
>> than a 70%  duty cycle.
>> A typical EME link running JT65 requires a 50% for 10-30 minutes at a time.  
>> The transistors and cooling system needs to be designed accordingly to meet 
>> the competition grade requirements.
>>
>>
>> HR-956-Pro Must have list:
>>
>> Spectrum display screen:
>>        I can't imagine building a new competition grade system without this 
>> feature.
>>        It would be nice to see the band pass, before and after the filter 
>> stages.
>>
>> Full computer remote control:
>> Memory read/Read and save.  All memory channels options must be exportable 
>> to a CSV or similar file, including TX and RX frequencies, settings, 
>> including Repeater or split frequency settings.
>> All protocols must be Public protocols, no propriety software or licenses.
>>
>>
>> Doppler Control (Manual):
>>
>> LEO SSB satellites are some of the hardest satellites two work because of 
>> the amount of Doppler frequency change per second.  Satellite Mode-B is very 
>> hard (70 cm Uplink and 2-meter Downlink).  While you are talking through a 
>> SSB Mod-B satellite, you need to be simultaneously adjusting your 
>> transmitter with every other word, in order to keep your downlink signal 
>> centered inside the transponder.
>>
>> The Yasue FT-736R Satellite control knob, seems to work very well with dual 
>> VFO's and provides you the ability to quickly change either TX or RX to 
>> compensate for Doppler (among other features).  The Knob style is much 
>> easier to use than "Buttons".  I found the Doppler VFO correction on some 
>> newer radios to be very frustrating.
>> The new HR-956-Pro must have the Yasue FT-736R control Knob and it must be 
>> functional for both VFO's and Memory Channels.
>>
>>
>> DSP Noise tools:
>> The usual stuff.
>>
>>
>> FM Center Tuning Meter:
>> Many of the new satellites are LEO's (Low Earth Orbit), and many of these 
>> satellites are running FM-5k.  The reason for FM is because the Doppler 
>> causes the 70cm band to drift over 20, kHz during a 10-20 minute pass. The 
>> LEO SSB satellites using Mode J or Mode B are difficult to use because of 
>> the large Doppler change.  The FM mode,  helps reduce the impact caused by 
>> the higher Doppler.
>>
>> The FM Center Tuning Meter feature is a "must have" for a Satellite radio.
>> When the FM satellite comes in range, just look at the FM meter and tune the 
>> receiver until the needle is centered and you now know the exact downlink 
>> for that Satellite.   If the needle is left, turn the RX knob slowly Right,  
>> If the needle is Right, turn the RX knob slowly left, very simple.
>> The Yaesu FT-736R has a FM Center Tuning Meter and it makes working FM 
>> satellites much easier.  The IC-910 has a blinking light to tell you your FM 
>> satellite receiver frequency has drifted. Unfortunately, the blinking light 
>> is useless in telling you if your frequency is high or low.
>>
>>
>> HR-956-Pro, Nice to have list:
>>
>> General coverage receiver (50 - 1000 megacycles):
>> The addition of a general coverage receiver would help with the sales of the 
>> HR-956-Pro.  However, it is very important that the general coverage 
>> receiver, NOT degrade the performance of the satellite receivers.  We are 
>> not trying to build a super police scanner. One possible suggestion would-be 
>> to make the general coverage receiver a separate circuit board, which would 
>> be connected to a separate antenna port and thus would not degraded from the 
>> performance of the satellite receivers.
>>
>> VHF / UHF Optional bands or Transverter:
>> The Amateur radio community is constantly experimenting with new bands.  It 
>> would be nice to have a Transverter module or expansion module for future 
>> bands.  In the USA these bands are becoming popular, 220mc, 900 mc, etc
>>
>> (All frequencies localized for each country)
>>
>>
>> Size is important:
>> To hold the hardware, band scope, filters and make the buttons easily 
>> accessible, a box about the size of the IC-756 product seems to be the right 
>> size.
>>
>> What should not be in the HR-956-Pro.
>>
>> No HF:
>> No access to frequencies below 50 megacycles.
>> The addition of HF to a satellite radio would only degrade the performance 
>> of the weak signal satellite receivers.
>> HF would also add to the cost of the transceiver and reduce its sales 
>> potential.
>> A competition grade VHF/UHF transceiver has no use for HF.
>> HF would result in the radio being just another mediocre transceiver.
>>
>> No obsolete Serial ports:
>>  No RS-232 or TTL.
>> These devices are so last century.
>>
>> DSTAR:
>> The DSTAR mode is fun, I use it often and I have even been pushing ARISS to 
>> install it on the International Space Station.  As much as I like this mode, 
>> it is not a requirement for a competition grade satellite system.  I would 
>> much rather have the money put into making the VHF/UHF receivers the best 
>> possible.
>>
>>
>> How much are we willing to pay for the HR-956-Pro:
>>
>> That depends on the performance, suggest price $2000 - $3000 USD
>>
>> Closing:
>>
>> If anyone knows of such a radio I would be interested to know who makes it.
>>
>>
>> Sincerely
>>
>> WF1F  Miles
>> www.marexmg.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
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>>
>
>
>
>-- 
>Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]
>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


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