Thanks, Phil.  That's pretty interesting, although I still do wonder about
keeping within spec.  I especially wonder about Ag/Zn where there is that
chemistry change in the middle of the charge cycle; what is the result of
perhaps never crossing chemistry change threshold with shallow cycles?  I
certainly don't know.

One of the ARRISat papers I read talked about Ag/Zn being safe when shorted.
 I suppose that 'safe' is for the battery itself.  You would still have a
lot of current going through whatever caused the short.

I was also intrigued when you mentioned super-caps in a previous posting.
 The enormous cycle life is really useful...it seems like just keeping the
IHU ticking over would be really useful, even if we had no up/downlink
capability during eclipse.  And of course we could think about having them
as a backup after the 'standard' battery died.

Interesting to think about...

BTW, you may not remember, but we exchanged email many years ago; we were
both on one of the USENET boards (sci.space.columbia?)  I asked if I could
join AMSAT before I got my ham ticket.  You were kind enough to encourage
me.  Well, I did join AMSAT a year or 2 ago, and just this spring got my
general ticket too.  So thanks for the encouragement even if it was a few
decades before I acted on it :-)

Burns, W2BFJ

On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 8:17 PM, Phil Karn <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 8/14/11 11:31 AM, Burns Fisher wrote:
>
> > What about another strategy?  Suppose we did exactly what the battery was
> > spec'ed for:  Deep cycles.
>
> Almost every type of battery does better with shallow cycles than deep
> cycles. So this is almost certainly true for Ag/Zn as well. These
> batteries just aren't designed for many cycles.
>
> There is a company (Z-power) working on a Ag/Zn battery with a decent
> cycle life, intended for use in laptops. They claim the price of silver
> isn't an impediment because laptop li-ion batteries are also expensive
> and the silver in their batteries can be reclaimed and reused
> indefinitely. One advantage they keep citing is the increased safety of
> a battery with a water-based electrolyte. But newer li-ion batteries
> have also been developed with different positive plate materials that
> greatly reduce the inherent fire hazard of these batteries.
>
> I don't know what the recent run-up in precious metal prices has done to
> their business plans.
>
> I would like to investigate super/ultracaps for spacecraft use. Their
> energy densities are low (a Maxwell ultracap the size of a D-cell
> battery holds about 0.35 watt-hour) but their cycle lives are extremely
> high: about 500,000 for a 20% degradation in capacity. These could still
> run a satellite computer through a LEO eclipse, eliminating one of the
> major problems with a modern satellite whose battery has failed.
>
> If a few of these caps could be flown, it might also be possible to run
> a low power, efficiently coded telemetry beacon through eclipse.
>
> But of course the caps would have to be safety rated. They do contain
> small amounts of potentially hazardous materials, but then again so do
> Ag/Zn batteries: their electrolytes consist of a strong lye (KOH)
> solution. It's hard to understand why these batteries would be approved
> but not NiCd and NiMH as they also use KOH in H2O as their electrolytes.
> If stored energy is considered a hazard, they could always be launched
> discharged and charged after deployment.
>
> -Phil
>
>
>
>
>
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