Huge email of Youness mentioning my name infinite times... I guess I can't hush now. First, a little status report for 0.96 TODO (nothing too much)
* linflash : thanx Sander for that patch, we need to somehow find out how on earth to query the WM. (UPDATE: see Phil's email which arrived after I started writing mine) * webcam pause : Rather than the solution Youness suggested, I think it would be faster to just assume it works just like without reflector and see if M$N accepts it. But Youness, I didn't quite understand the modifications you talked about. Can you find 10 minutes for this? I can do the testing with some M$N user then. If it doesn't work, then we can see what happens... * proxy : I thought it was OK, then someone on the forum reported that it doesn't go well with authenticating proxies. I have NO authenticating proxy though, so I just told that poor user to send a patch (just directed him to proc secureSocket, whose authentication part was untested already) (he seemed experienced in programming and willing to help anyway). Now, I guess you're right that, since I joined, people somehow expected things to be done automagically. This is why I quite stopped coding lately and I prefer assigning stuff to people on PM. I also like to motivate them this way - motivation comes more easily when you see that someone believes in you. But activity is still below 0 - maybe because all 3 issues left are tricky? Apart from this, I'm lately having an awful combination of inability to concentrate and important deadlines at university. So, when I do find some minutes when I can actually concentrate and do some work, I prefer to work on my assignments rather than to code for aMSN. I guess I also need a break before I start being active again. Oh, by the way, I was also supposed to upload TLS 1.5 binaries and make them available for download, then modify the code to upload 1.5 instead of 1.4, but I simply cannot do it, I just explained why. If someone can do it, I'll be forever grateful! (need to take into account 32-bit and 64-bit, and maybe tcl/tk 1.4 and 1.5?) (If you don't have permission to upload files, just send them to me and I will do it) I appreciate Karel's work on the GUI, I was frustrated at all these lengthy discussions about details so this is why I didn't answer. Then we had a conversation on PM, Karel, Youness, Alvaro and me (though I was mostly decorative there), which seems to have calmed things down, we agreed on something about minimize-on-close and, mostly, what Alvaro suggested: commit and let people argue after you commit :) billiob had said he'd be inactive now because he's having some important exams. However, he's here ready for action whenever he has some time. He was ready to commit again today, just SF was down again. He's also doing a great job with support on IRC and the forums. Thanx a lot billiob, keep up :) I also see a comeback from Fred - when I first joined the team, I didn't even know who he was (even after having been there for a while), and suddenly he ended up rewriting code. Go Fred! I may have missed some people there, it's just the first that came to my mind. My general impression is that everyone is willing to do something if we ask them on PM and sometimes this motivates them to start working more and take initiative. I guess we are working too ad-hoc right now, and we need someone to take control of all tasks, keep a status report, assign tasks to people, otherwise we get lost and don't know what the next target is. I can't do this because I need experience on how aMSN's system works - after all, I am the newest team member. Maybe someone else in cooperation with Youness. That's all for now. Sorry for the giant email... Viv On Tue, 9 May 2006, Youness Alaoui wrote: > Finally, I'll be answering you.. > As I said, maybe we're in a vicious circle, people grew tired from reading > endless discussions on the ML, and they stopepd working.. I remember when I > first joined in, there was Alvaro, burger, and me.. and the instructions were > simple "do whatever you like", there was no discussions, no nothing, we did > what we felt was right... but then of course, when we were more than 3 devels, > it became impossible, and discussions over the ML were necessary, maybe that's > what slowed people down... > In my case, I'm really busy, I have work, school, and in my free time, I > prefer to be with my girlfriend. I just finished my exams this week, and I > might be able to get some more free time now (when my gf will be at work, I'll > be home.. and *maybe* I will feel like coding instead of feeling like watching > a movie). So basically, it's time.. > when it's not time (yes, if you want to, you can always find the time, but > then you see the person you love, next to you, being bored, all alone, can you > really leave her there for some code???), it's motivation... I don't like > fixing bugs (I never did, even in the beginning, I did new feats, and Alvaro > fixed the bugs, hehe), most of the new features now are not stuff that I would > use, so I'm not interested, also, I begin to be bored from tcl/tk, and most of > the new feats to implement require you waste a lot of time trying to do them > inside really messy code.. you waste more time trying to understand the code > than coding itself.. and once it's done, it's another trip to hell in order to > add the appropriate GUI options... > also, I can't do GUI stuff, I'm really bad at it, so it can only be core > feats.. not always easy to do.. I could also do the difficult stuff, like > RE-ing something or sniffing, etc.. but if I begin, I KNOW I won't be able to > go to bed until I finish, and with work, you can't afford to do that.. also, I > need to rest alot during my free time and the weekends so I don't waste to > waste even more time on that.. > Add to it that I spend the whole day working on a pc, when I get home, I > usually don't want to code again... > And finaly, another reason is that it is well known that you should only have > one task : admin or developer.. if you *give orders* and code at the same > time, it will end up being a real mess, so I usually try to do the design, > give the ideas, the implementation, but not code (you notice that probably in > my many replies to amsn-commits with "do it this way" while I don't do the > code (even if I have it working, I send it by email), I already had problems > when trying to manage a project I was part of the coding staff for... so when > I code something, I prefer it to be something that I'm sure noone else will > code... > that's about it for my own personal reasons.. I'll answer your individual > questions below like billiob did, with short lines (I hope:P) > > > > On Tue, 09 May 2006 11:36:32 -0400, Boris Faure (aka billiob) > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >2006/5/7, Jérôme Gagnon-Voyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > >What is going on here??? > > > > > >Did I missed something on the IRC? > >Yes, you missed me being praised as a hero :D > > > > >It seems like almost nobody seems to care about aMSN anymore. Where > > >is billiob? > >I'm here ! and on IRC. I was coding a plugin that i'll release next > >WE. I do care about aMSN ! As you know, i never coded a lot! > > > > > > > >May be it's time to know what is going on. Why do you think I want to > > >leave? School finished and I asked myself...hey what can I > > >do...hmm....what should I do? What are the goals for 0.96? What part > > >of aMSN do we want to improve? WHERE ARE WE GOING? > > > > >The TODO-List is not long, but too hard for me :( I've searched the > >thing about non fully compliant WM and linflash, but it gave me no > >interesting answers. > > > > Yes, I know, we never set goals for 0.96, and that is my fault (I guess), I > never had the motivation to do it, write a proper TODO list like we had for > 0.95.. maybe it looks like we have no goals because we are in a state much > different from 0.95 release period, but this 0.96 release was not supposed to > be here, it was supposed to be a 0.95.1 bugfix release, the bugfixes becomes > small features, small features become a lot of stuff being done, but no real > roadmap.. it's not a problem.. but lately, I've been working with vivia on > this, we had a todo list for 0.96, we're trying to set it up, she never wanted > to temporarly manage that todo list, so I had to do it (at last!) but as you > said.. noone answered (STILL NOONE ANSWERED???) > where are we going? We should have released 0.96 two weeks ago (or 1 week? I > can't remember), vivia is waiting for more input on the proxy setup, and she > has I think 3 items that need to be done, she took care of everything (great > job there!), for each task she had someone working on it (asking each one > privately on msn), so we had "this is what we want, XXXX will do it, and it > will be done in YY weeks". I don't know exactly what's the status for that, > but we're really close to 0.96.. I didn't want to publicly announce it because > I know users will complain for being even one day late... > I think somewhere near next week or in 2 weeks, the 0.96 RC1 will be released, > we planned on an RC1 and RC2, I don't think we'll go to RC3, but we never > know.. at that point, 0.96 will be released, an improved version with many > bugfixes... and once it's done, we'll have a "real new version", we'll enter > that cycle with detailed, specific goals, tasks assigned to each one (vivia > and I are maintaining the task tracker on SF), with deadlines, etc... > > > >NOWHERE! > > >Don't tell me you don't have time or something, we just stoped > > >because we had no motivation. Some commited only by obligation. > > >Without Vivia doing the "ground" work, there's nothing going on here. > >You're right. If Vivia had not joined the team, i don't know if we > >would still write and read this ML, or maybe you would have send this > >electric shock before. > > > > it's nto about the ML, it's about the commits.. vivia did a great job there.. > but maybe if she didn't join people would stop thinking "ohh, vivia will do > it" and would actually do something! :P > > > > > >Remember 0.95? We all knew what we wanted for the release. It was > > >taking a long time but A LOT OF WORK was done. > > >What was done 0.96? A slider for the webcam viewer......? Yeah? Was > > >that the big goal for 0.96? > > > > > there were a lot of improvements, the main reason for 0.96 is the fix for the > proxy support, the current 0.95 version wil lnot work with proxies, and vivia > fixed it for 0.96, and it's a critical issue which is why we're going to > release 0.96 sooner than expected. > > > >Remember 0.95? The todo updated by everybody, all the bugreports > > >verified, when Youness first talked about the release, there was a > > >LOT of activity here. Like before every release. > > > > > >And now Youness send a message about 0.96....NOBODY ANSWER!!! WE > > >DON'T CARE!!! > > >I ask for help about aMSN on Intel Mac...hey without that the Mac > > >version of aMSN is GONE!!!!. NOBODY ANSWER!! NOBODY CARE!!! > > > >I can't help you on that, sorry. > > > > yeah, seems everyone is fed up.. we need new faces, new people.. like vivia, > and I'm planning on adding two new members who I think deserve their place as > team members.. but they don't know it yet :p > > > >So start telling what is your problem and may be we can try to fix > > >that. But it seems like right now nobody care and nobody is > > >motivated, there MUST be a reason. > > > > > >These are mine > > >-I don't know where are we going > >No, there are plenty of ideas. > > The TODO in the wiki was updated btw... > > > >-No leadership > >We miss you. And Youness stopped his dictature that was useful in fact ! > > lol, yeah, my dictature.. thx :p yeah, we miss you J, and the reason why I'm > not leading anymore is because, as I said, I quit... if I have to lead the > team again, It will take too much of my time, and I don't want to go back to > that state, I had to make so much sacrifices, and leading amsn become a real > burden, really stressful, no more fun.. now that I have less responsabilties, > I'm able to contribute without sacrificing my own life. This is why I > stopped... I thought you'd take over my lead, but you're going too, so this > leaves... euhh.. noone :p > > > >-No direction > >I think we need to release 0.96 as soon as possible. It's a burden for us > > yes, and that's what we'll do... > > > >-Big time lost on silly things and silly discussions > >If you're talking about the GUI, you're wrong. But it's because we're > >used too long mails (thanks Youness :D) > > > > lol, no, he's talking about all discussions.. and I agree to that.. we need to > start coding and stop talking.. and as this GUI thread showed us today, and as > Alvaro said, which enlightened all of us, "code it, do it, commit, THEN if > people complain, let's argue and we'll see if the code needs to be changed". > > > >Don't bother answering if it's just to tell "hey...I had an homework > > >to finish for yesterday", when we are motivated, we always find time. > >I'm sitting for my most important exams but i have free time during this > >period. > > yes, but if I get motivated, I find the time, and I cut off my legs... (== > sacrifice other stuff...) > > > >If i'm just out of track, just tell me, may be i'm alone to see a big > > >problem here, may be everything is perfect. > >You're right : it's not perfect, but not as dead as you said. > > > >We need to release and start working on huge goals that keep us in right way. > > > > yes, we're far from being perfect.. it looks dead ,but it's not as dead as you > said... > but I can't agree with billiob, yes, we need goals, specific goals, > interesting stuff to do... but not huge goals, it's known that huge goals > always end up incomplete, and forgotten.. > look at the new preferences window, the new contact list, the second new > contact list... we need goals, even if they are small, we need goals.. and if > they are interesting, that would be better. > > > Now, I hope I answered your question Jerome, and I hope you're feeling better, > you looked quite pissed off in that mail.. hehe, anywyas, take care, and I > hope you all the best. > > KaKaRoTo > > > >Greetings > >-- > >Boris FAURE (aka billiob) > >mail, msn : [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >No trees were killed in the sending of this message. > >However, a large number of electrons were terribly agitated. > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------- > >Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > >Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier > >Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo > >http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid0709&bid&3057&dat1642 > >_______________________________________________ > >Amsn-devel mailing list > >[email protected] > >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amsn-devel > > > > -- > KaKaRoTo > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd_______________________________________________ > Amsn-devel mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amsn-devel > --- "Where is the life that we have lost in living? Where is the wisdom that we have lost in knowledge? Where is the knowledge that we have lost in information?" OEO;
