+Wikimedia Analytics <[email protected]>

Thanks for pointing me to the list, I should have written there in the
first place.

Sorry, with "user agent" term, I didn't mean the actual user agent string,
but rather what you are trying to express with "unique device" - i.e. the
different browsers on a single mobile device. I should have just stayed
with your terminology to make it less confusing.

Basically, to capture only people who already have a Wikimedia-cookie, and
count those. This would still underreport - as it would miss all that only
came once - but not by too much, I'd think. Right now I am more worried
about overreporting.

I hope this is a bit clearer.



On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 11:16 AM Nuria Ruiz <[email protected]> wrote:

> Denny:
>
> Best list to ask these kinds of questions is analytics@ (cc-ed).
>
> >A minor question - could you also count the number of unique recurring
> user agents per month? I.e. the number of visits that return and have a
> still valid cookie (e.g. by >marking the cookie after the count).
> mmm...Not sure what you mean by "recurring" as you can have thousands of
> people with the same user agent, right? Think "everyone in Seattle with an
> iPhone and the latest OS using Safari" . You can add other pieces of info
> like IP, but in mobile and due to NAT-ing [1] that can also mean a group of
> thousands of people. So it will always under-report heavily the number of
> unique devices if you use "recurring user agents" as base for your main
> calculation.
>
> Now, I might be missing something as your question is brief, maybe you can
> elaborate a bit more ?
>
>
> >I am worried that the current number, due to the freshness offset  might
> be overreporting
> Since the offset calculation takes IP into account when looking for
> freshness and it only keeps devices having 1 event without cookies and 0
> with cookies the calculation is likely to under-report in mobile, due to,
> again, NAT-ing and user agents being shared among many devices. We see this
> on our data as smaller offset numbers in mobile projects than desktop
> projects. Now, this methodology might over report for a user that uses many
> distinct IPS, same browser, does 1 request and clears cookies after every
> session, now this is a far less often a common of a scenario.
>
> Hopefully this makes sense.
>
>
> >Again, congratulations on the work! I am really happy to see the WMF not
> being dependent on a commercial traffic numbers provider anymore!
> Many thanks for reading!
>
>
>
>
>  [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_address_translation
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 10:30 AM, Denny Vrandečić <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Nuria, Aaron,
>>
>> first congratulations on the Unique devices work! I am really impressed
>> by the solution and the dataset. I am looking forward to the visualizations
>> that will come out from this.
>>
>> A minor question - could you also count the number of unique recurring
>> user agents per month? I.e. the number of visits that return and have a
>> still valid cookie (e.g. by marking the cookie after the count).
>>
>> My reasoning is the following: knowing well that it would possibly
>> further underreport the number of unique user agents, it would get rid of
>> all user agents that clean their cookies out or that use some form of
>> incognito mode. It would only count people who have been there, got a
>> cookie, returned, and then we mark the cookie, and don't count them further
>> until it expires.
>>
>> I am worried that the current number, due to the freshness offset [1],
>> might be overreporting, and I do not agree fully with your reasoning in
>> that page that this is OK. Counting only the recurring ones would clean
>> that up, give a more reliable number, although it would potentially
>> underreport the people who indeed only come once a month (a number I don't
>> expect to be too large).
>>
>> It would be interesting to see these two numbers side by side.
>>
>> Again, congratulations on the work! I am really happy to see the WMF not
>> being dependent on a commercial traffic numbers provider anymore!
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Denny
>>
>>
>> [1]
>> https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Analytics/Unique_Devices/Last_access_solution#How_big_of_a_percentage_does_the_offset_represent_from_the_total.3F
>>
>>
>
>
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