@Kevin About Scoreloop, I just tried to access their SDK for Android and here is what is listed:
"Android SDK Core Social for Android is being released to a first group of developers. If you're interested in early access, please email [email protected]" On Mar 18, 2:41 am, Robert Green <[email protected]> wrote: > Kevin, > > First of all, let me clarify some numbers: > > Your average EA game costs a lot more than 10s of thousands of > dollars. I bet no iphone port of any game cost them less than 100k to > do. I wouldn't be surprised if they spent 100k-500k on an iphone > version of an existing title. They deal with games that go into the > millions in development cost. How much does it cost to pay a staff of > 25 for 9 months to develop something? Even at a modest 50k per person > (which is reasonable for a junior level artist dying to make game art) > you're looking at around a million dollars. That's a normal size > staff and a very conservative timeline for a big title. They're also > difficult to compete with because of that. It's harder for us to put > together content that people won't scoff at. Just the other day I got > a comment saying that one of my games looks like it took 2 weeks to > make. That's after 6 months of development. How much is 6 months of > your time worth? At my last job, that would be around 50k. One could > say that the true cost of developing that game was then 50k. I won't > recoup those costs, but I think that over the course of releasing my > next few games which are far nicer than anything I've ever done before > (partially due to my experience from working on past games and the new > artist I work with) I think I'll get far better returns on future time > invested. > > Also, being at the top of the market helps a ton. It can really make > a game, but take, for instance, Polarbit's last few games. They got > the market late and STILL nailed it (relatively speaking). It's the > games themselves... They brought a handful of high quality 3D games to > a platform with very few, and people took notice. > > People (myself included sometimes) complain about how unfair the > mobile markets are. It's true to a degree, but when I see good apps > and good games make breakthroughs, it reminds me that it's still > really about the well executed idea getting strong word of mouth > recommendations and making it. It still works that way. The problem > is that as the market gets more and more apps and games, you have to > make a bigger splash to get noticed, which takes more people and more > time to do. It's at that point that people complain that the gold > rush is over. I think that anyone who is here for a gold rush ought > to just pack up there bags and head somewhere else now because I can > only see those who are truly into what they do succeeding in markets > like this. We'll see people succeed and act like they are lucky but > they really aren't. Maybe they got some luck along the way but much > of what makes people successful is a genuinely well executed, good > idea. > > Build truly great products for an audience who actually needs or would > really enjoy them and you'll do ok. > > On Mar 17, 10:54 pm, Kevin Duffey <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I too am interested in how developers make money off of games... and other > > than the usual sell for .99 or ads in the game. By this I mean, unless your > > game is shown on the android market near the top, how do you either avoid > > your game going further down the list so as to most likely never be found by > > most people searching? I think that's the kiss of death, as some others have > > written about from time to time. When iPhone first opened it's store, it was > > ripe for new apps to make good money. Now, it seems very few apps make good > > money, enough to run a business around. I am amazed at companies like EA and > > even smaller ones that put a few games up each year... it must cost 10s of > > thousands in development dollars to make those games, and at a couple bucks > > a pop, I wonder if they ever recoup their costs, much less profit. > > > I see games even on Android with over 250,000 downloads, but how much of > > that is turned into money for the developer. At $3 a pop, some of the > > defense games are really good, provides hours of fun, and worth $3, but I > > wonder if they've actually made $750,000 with their 250,000+ downloads.. or > > if about 95% of that is downloads then returns a day later to avoid the > > costs. > > > I am also very interested in how many end users (not developers) actually go > > thru the trouble of setting up an account to pay for things. I still do not > > understand for the life of me why google (and even iPhone) did NOT make this > > charge directly to the carrier bill. It's a clear way to make it super easy > > to get people to pay more frequently. I would actually buy $1 apps, many of > > them, if I could just simply be charged on my phone bill each month and not > > have the hassle of going thru a setup process, google checkout, etc. > > > I am also curious from another thread posted, with regards to games being > > able to do their own in-game charge process.. to allow players to buy game > > items, gold, etc using real money... or buying game money with real money, > > then using that to purchase game items, etc. Has anyone actually done > > this... or is this completely against googles rules... and thus google would > > take down/ban the game from the market? I know you can offer the game via > > your own site for download, and other sites that don't have quite the rules > > as android market, but just wondering if that is an actual issue.. or can > > games provide in-game patches, game packs, game items, etc and charge for > > them? It seems really ridiculous for google/android to prevent that in my > > opinion. It only helps solidify the platform that much more, especially when > > it concerns other avenues for developers to make some money off of their > > hard work. I think allowing it would bring more developers and a lot more > > apps to Android sooner. > > > On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 7:40 PM, Miguel Morales > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > I'm writing a 2D MMO using realtime movement I can tell you that > > > realtime movement can get very tricky. Don't think that you can > > > simply poll the server fast enough to grab all player locations. This > > > may work fine in a LAN network, but not while the device is out and > > > about. > > > > You have to take network latency into account. > > > > For the server end I use a Perl/Erlang system, data is stored in a > > > PostgreSQL database however, data that is transient and requires fast > > > read/writes I use Mnesia, an in-memory database for Erlang. > > > > The results so far have been phenomenal, I don't have to bother with > > > JSON (although I love it.) > > > Don't forget that that decoding things can take precious milliseconds, > > > so I find it better to work with bytes directly. > > > > Passwords are stored encrypted on the database and checked against the > > > POSTed password. > > > Other than that, the protocol is sent as-is. The reason is two-fold. > > > One, the client doesn't actually generate any game information, it > > > only asks for information, and it 'asks' if it can perform a function > > > (i.e. move to a tile.) > > > The only thing encrypting packets would do is lessens the chances of > > > bots, but I want to encourage client development. > > > The second reason is that I plan to open source the protocol to try to > > > get some other clients going with the help of other developers. > > > > This way the game is inherently cross-platform. > > > I'm interested in how developers monetize from the games. > > > > On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 6:35 PM, mike <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 03/17/2010 05:05 PM, Bob Kerns wrote: > > > > >> Yes, SHA-1 is what you should go with. It's really a matter of just > > > >> requesting a different engine; the API doesn't care which one you use. > > > > >> One thing to consider is that a salt doesn't prevent replay attacks. > > > >> If you want to prevent people driving up their score by replaying the > > > >> packets already sent, you may want to include a nonce in your > > > >> protocol. > > > > >> I'd suggest using a secure random, and the current time, and remember > > > >> recent nonces, and reject anything that's either not recent, or has a > > > >> nonce that's been recently seen. > > > > > Ie, a Kerberos-like replay cache :) I sort of wonder how often > > > > they actually need to send results up... if it's pretty infrequent > > > > and/or not very intensive, is there a reason to just not use TLS > > > > to deal with _all_ of these problems, and way more (like MITM > > > > attacks, etc)? I know it seems heavy handed, but it's just a matter > > > > of changing http to https on the phone side of things. The server > > > > side would need a cert, but that's not terribly hard to come by > > > > these days, and you'd get the assurance that strengths and weaknesses > > > > of MD5 and other arcane cruft is somebody *else's* problem. > > > > > Mike > > > > >> It's easy too do -- and even if it's not necessary to have that level > > > >> of security, it's a good technique to be aware of. > > > > >> On Mar 17, 2:27 pm, Kevin Duffey<[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >>> Hey Mario, > > > > >>> Thanks for the replies. So your salted md5 hash, do you generate one > > > for > > > >>> each player, or just one for your game, that is sent in with every > > > >>> request by each game player (via your game code)? So this secret that > > > >>> you > > > >>> concatenate, you hard code it in both the game code and your server > > > code? > > > >>> So some string like abcd123, append it, md5 the whole string, then > > > >>> send > > > >>> it? > > > > >>> I have been using SHA-1 for playing around, using the Java SDK api > > > >>> that > > > >>> can > > > >>> also be used for MD5. Any benefit in using MD5 over SHA-1? I thought > > > >>> SHA-1 was more secure/harder to crack? > > > > >>> I agree with you.. the chances of anyone sniffing the packets, > > > >>> figuring > > > >>> out > > > >>> its game data, trying to decipher it, and for what purpose anyway.. is > > > >>> unlikely. > > > >>> However, for some reason, companies tend to shy away from anything > > > >>> that > > > >>> isn't super industrial strength secure. I am also curious because I > > > >>> may > > > >>> want > > > >>> to > > > >>> allow the game player the option to use real currency in game to buy > > > game > > > >>> items. That may > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Android Developers" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
