The update can be mandatory; so far (AFAIK) none have been, but that doesn't
make the requirement go away.

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 11:44 AM, lbcoder <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> There's no risk if the procedure is correct.
>
> And as for the reliability of sdcard being available and having enough
> space; that's a B.S. excuse for doing nothing and I'll tell you why:
>
> if (sdcard mounted && sdcard enough space available){
> do stuff;
> } else {
> do nothing;
> }
>
> On Aug 13, 12:52 pm, Jean-Baptiste Queru <[email protected]> wrote:
> > One point is that repartitioning "live" devices is not an option
> > anyway, it's far too risky.
> >
> > Also, there's no guarantee that users will have an SD card in the
> > system, or that it'll be mounted, or that there'll be space on it, so
> > it's not a reliable enough solution.
> >
> > JBQ
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 9:35 AM, lbcoder<[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > ... unless you divide the system up into smarter chunks. *IF* you
> > > updated to allow apps to be installed to SD, that opens up quite a big
> > > chunk of internal storage space for the system.
> >
> > > Then of course, there is again that big wasted chunk of /cache.... why
> > > again was it that you don't allow OTA updates to be cached to the
> > > sdcard instead of internal memory?
> >
> > > To translate: Dream has 256 MB of internal space. Of this, 67.5 are
> > > available to the system, 74.8 to /data, and 67.5 are (mostly) a
> > > complete waste sitting in /cache waiting for OTAs.
> >
> > > Might be better to redistribute as such: /data: 50 (or even less...
> > > 25?) + apps-go-on-sdcard, /system: 159.8, /cache-->/sdcard/cache or in
> > > the least, drop the size of /cache down to something more sensible and
> > > keep the OTAs on the sdcard.
> >
> > > To consider: OTA update files (update.zip) can *already* be installed
> > > from sdcard using recovery mode.
> >
> > > Now implementation, a challenge, of course...
> > > Changing the partitioning in the SPL breaks the data on the internal
> > > memory, so this would require a 2-stage update and some free space on
> > > the SDCARD. Move *all of* /data to sdcard, update the SPL to one that
> > > will boot a recovery.img off the SDCARD and put a recovery.img on the
> > > SDCARD that will apply /sdcard/update.zip without asking questions and
> > > then moving certain components from the sdcard BACK to the internal
> > > memory (not the apps), and then finally, of course, by deleting
> > > itself.
> >
> > > I think that should fix all the space limitations for the next few
> > > years.
> >
> > > Are you interested in hiring an engineer to implement this? I would be
> > > happy to volunteer my services if the pay is right.
> >
> > > On Aug 13, 12:13 pm, Jean-Baptiste Queru <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >> This is a bit of a no-win situation:
> >
> > >> (1) we could stop upgrading "small" devices altogether.
> >
> > >> (2) we could restrict the entire platform to features that will fit on
> > >> the smallest devices.
> >
> > >> (3) we could maintain different feature sets for different devices,
> > >> such that e.g. the smallest devices could receive updates to the core
> > >> platform but no new major features.
> >
> > >> Neither of those is a great option: (1) penalizes the early adopters,
> > >> (2) penalizes the entire ecosystem by making the latest phones less
> > >> competitive, (3) penalizes the early adopters less than (1) but adds
> > >> quite some engineering cost to maintain the parallel variants.
> >
> > >> Where the situation is really tricky is that the system partition on
> > >> the US G1 was already filled to the brim with cupcake, and we were
> > >> routinely flirting with build sizes that were a few dozen kB under the
> > >> limit (or several MB over...), which means that even small changes to
> > >> the core platform could very easily push the system size over the
> > >> limit and staying under the limit took some effort.
> >
> > >> JBQ
> >
> > >> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 8:51 AM, Fred Grott<[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > >> > Romain,
> >
> > >> > The backward support of first gen devices via the firmware size
> limit, will
> > >> > that limit always be there as we go forward in Android version or do
> you see
> > >> > at some point firmware size limits being increased?
> >
> > >> > Thanks
> >
> > >> > Fred Grott
> > >> >http://mobilebytes.wordpess.com
> >
> > >> > On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:00 PM, Romain Guy <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >
> > >> >> > OK, how about David Goldfarb's video ringtone support patches? He
> > >> >> > started working on those a long time ago. Originally the patches
> had
> > >> >> > several issues with them, Google was quick to jump in and point
> out
> > >> >> > what was wrong. He resolved the issues and submitted his patches
> again
> > >> >> > (over a month ago). Once the patches lacked the issues pointed
> out,
> > >> >> > what happens then? Nothing.
> >
> > >> >> David had long discussions directly with the media team and myself
> by
> > >> >> email about his patch. Last time I checked his work the UI he was
> > >> >> proposing was still not acceptable for inclusion in the platform.
> >
> > >> >> > It seems you don't understand. The entire ecosystem is being
> strangled
> > >> >> > by this. It's not a nice to have feature. It seems like if
> someone
> > >> >> > over there did understand, this would be a feature in Donut. If
> you've
> > >> >> > starred the feature request in the bug database you'd understand
> how
> > >> >> > angry people are about this. But I don't think anybody is even
> > >> >> > notified when people post "Wow! I am getting way too much email
> from
> > >> >> > having this issue starred, so I'm unstarring it".
> >
> > >> >> Wanting this feature does not mean we will add it at this point of
> the
> > >> >> development process. The same applies to all of the features the
> core
> > >> >> Android team would like to add and know would be enjoyed by many.
> In
> > >> >> this particular case, and I talked briefly with the author about
> it,
> > >> >> we also need to take into account the binary size of this feature
> (at
> > >> >> least if you guys want the final build to fit on an HTC
> Dream/T-Mobile
> > >> >> G1), the added dependency (new library) and the extra QA. This just
> > >> >> cannot happen for Donut. We also need to see if it's something that
> > >> >> makes sense to support in Android. Yes this issue was starred by 80
> > >> >> people. But this number is (unfortunately) dwarfed by the number of
> > >> >> users of Android and we need to question the fact whether this
> feature
> > >> >> would be used by enough people to warrant its inclusion. That's
> true
> > >> >> of all features we include. Now in this particular case an Android
> > >> >> engineer has been actively participating on the bug report and even
> > >> >> took measure of the impact on batter life. Not having this feature
> in
> > >> >> Donut is not a question of us ignoring it, it's just about the fact
> > >> >> that it's too late in the development cycle. Period.
> >
> > >> >> > That's what you say.
> > >> >> > Name one significant user visible feature that
> > >> >> > has made its way from a non OHA member contributor from the
> public
> > >> >> > repository into Donut in Google's private repo. Not a bugfix, or
> a
> > >> >> > typo. Something visible to the user in the way that FLAC support
> or
> > >> >> > Video Ringtones or something of that ilk would be. My point is,
> how
> > >> >> > many contributions do you expect to receive when the worthy ones
> so
> > >> >> > far are still unattended to?
> >
> > >> >> FLAC was too late and video ringtones were still not in good enough
> > >> >> state. I just told you I am committed to accepting features and bug
> > >> >> fixes from the community in specific areas. I cannot point you to
> > >> >> features that have been merged in these areas if I don't receive
> > >> >> patches in the first place. I would also be happy to discuss
> potential
> > >> >> changes and their impact and relevance. Also please remember that
> > >> >> because a feature, even if great, is submitted it does not mean it
> > >> >> will make it into Android. There should be little reason for a
> feature
> > >> >> to not make it but accept the fact that we cannot accept just *any*
> > >> >> feature, especially considering some constraints we have to deal
> with
> > >> >> (like the firmware size limit on 1st generation phones.)
> >
> > >> >> --
> > >> >> Romain Guy
> > >> >> Android framework engineer
> > >> >> [email protected]
> >
> > >> >> Note: please don't send private questions to me, as I don't have
> time
> > >> >> to provide private support.  All such questions should be posted on
> > >> >> public forums, where I and others can see and answer them
> >
> > >> --
> > >> Jean-Baptiste M. "JBQ" Queru
> > >> Software Engineer, Android Open-Source Project, Google.
> >
> > >> Questions sent directly to me that have no reason for being private
> > >> will likely get ignored or forwarded to a public forum with no further
> > >> warning.
> >
> > --
> > Jean-Baptiste M. "JBQ" Queru
> > Software Engineer, Android Open-Source Project, Google.
> >
> > Questions sent directly to me that have no reason for being private
> > will likely get ignored or forwarded to a public forum with no further
> > warning.
> >
>

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