Hi!
I believe that it is important to consider the current phase of the "live cycle" of AOLserver in order to focus the roadmap on the important stuff: - AOLserver is "mature" software, there were relatively few changes in the last few years. There are very large productive installations relying on AOLserver. - AOLserver is close to the end of it's live cycle, because there are few new installations. Instead, many users and projects have already migrated away towards Apache etc. - New features will probably convince few additional people to use AOLserver. - Instead, and that would be my conclusion, new versions of AOLserver should reduce the migration pressure for existing users and allow the existing user to extend the lifetime of their installations. Would you agree with this assessment? Maybe we should have a survey who is still using AOLserver really... Concerning ]project-open[ (we had some 200.000 downloads on SourceForge and there are some ~50 developers involved with ]po[ in one form or another): - We have approx. 10x more ]project-open[ users running on Windows then on Linux. I don't particularly like the Win version, but removing this version will have a devasting impact on ]po[. A VMware version is not a replacement for a Windows installer. We are increasingly going for "stupid" users, and these guys want a clean and easy installer for their Win box. - I'm a personal fan of CygWin, and a CygWin version would be OK for us even with 32bit. However, I believe there are other users (Quest) who have customers asking for high- performance Windows installations. Dropping a native Win version might force Quest to migrate. I can also imagine that the Windows platform will become more important for our upcoming ]po[ V4.0 release because we will target larger corporations who are typciallly Windows shops in the US. - We are already hedging for an end of AOLserver live cycle: www.openacs.org/forums/message-view?message_id=3637561 It will be painful, but I believe it will come some day. Please don't accellerate this moment unnecessarily... Cheers! Frank --- Frank Bergmann Dipl.-Ing., MBA Founder ]project-open[ Tel: +34 933 250 914 Cell: +34 609 953 751 Fax: +34 932 890 729 mailto:frank.bergm...@project-open.com http://www.project-open.com/ -----Original Message----- From: Maurizio Martignano [mailto:maurizio.martign...@spazioit.com] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 10:56 AM To: aolserver-talk@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [AOLSERVER] Windows Support Dear all, I do not think that removing Windows specific code is a good idea. Some time ago I showed as example how many people have downloaded ]project-open[ on Windows as opposed to the VM, or the tar ball. In case you do not remember the numbers, please have a look at this URL: http://sourceforge.net/projects/project-open/files/project-open/ The idea of using some kind of emulation is also questionable. Why? Suppose we want to have Aolserver on Windows , then the emulation layer would impose unacceptable inefficiencies. Here we are not talking about using some emulation layer to run some ancillary programs, called every now and then (e.g. dot, wget, and so on), but Aolserver itself (i.e. nsd), the very heart of every OpenACS based web application. The same type or reasoning applies to the database engine (e.g. postgresql), it would be a major error running it on some emulation layer. What is the current status of these emulation layers? I know everybody is thinking about Cygwin... But Cygwin is, at the time being only a Win32 application. Nowadays all the servers are 64 bit machines. Soon the same will be for desktop and laptop computers. With Cygwin on 64 bit Windows machine we have double emulation: Linux/Unix Application ----------------------------- Cygwin/ Posix emulation ----------------------------- WOW64/ Win32 emulation (this is Windows 32 emulated on Windows 64) ----------------------------- Windows 64 I cant see any sign of Cygwin moving towards Windows 64. Last year in summer there was an interesting discussion about that (http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.os.cygwin.devel/233/focus=247) but nothing happened because the effort is too big and nobody had enough energy to spend on it. For how long will WOW64 be supported by Microsoft? It is already an option in the core part of Windows Server 2008 R2 (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd371790%28v=vs.85%29.aspx). MingGW can now compile for Windows 64 but it lacks the Posix emulation available in Cygwin. Another (kind of emulation) solution would be compiling Aolserver with Visual Studio 2010 (or 2012) + SUA SDK (Utilities and SDK for Subsystem for UNIX-based Applications) (these two build both in 32 and 64). I am sure very few people know about this possibility. So what are the feasible options? I believe there are only two (well three) options: 1. we maintain the Windows code inside Aolserver (I favour this) 2. we compile Unix only code via the SUA SDK 3. we forget about Windows and we use real emulation, that is a VM running Linux But how many people are willing to download a VM of 1.5 GB or so just to test a system? A Windows installer of 150MB or so is much, much more attractive. Later on, if they are happy with the system, people can stick to Windows or use Linux for production. What do you think? Maurizio -----Original Message----- From: Wolfgang Winkler [mailto:wolfgang.wink...@digital-concepts.com] Sent: 27 September 2012 09:11 To: aolserver-talk@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [AOLSERVER] TCL websockets Implementation Hi! I've cleaned up our websockets code a bit (ah, the joy of it), it should run now on a basic AOLserver install. Where should I post it? Wolfgang -- digital concepts OG Software & Design Landstrasse 68 / 5. Stock A - 4020 Linz Büro: +43 732 99711772 Mobil: +43 699 19971172 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. 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