Hi,
how would you do to identify "incorrectly translated terms"? what would you
define as a term? would the implemented logging system be sufficient for
that or would you rewrite it? can you ellaborate a little bit more on that?
Luis
On 5 April 2011 18:57, Igor Chtivelband <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi,Luis.
> I am thinking about kind of BI solution for these needs.
> Like ,considering that all log events are written in DB, we can create
> process running once a day and filtering top 10 most "problematic" language
> pairs with list of what terms were translated incorrectly.Same process can
> create reports about how many translations were done,how many manual fixes
> were added,etc.
> What do you think?
> Igor
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 11:24 AM, Luis Villarejo <[email protected]>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 4 April 2011 11:18, Igor Chtivelband <[email protected]>wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,Luis
>>> Thank you for detailed explanations.
>>>
>>> 1. I think this feature is not intuitve enougn for the user in the
>>> way it is implemented now,since by adding "Manual replacement" the user
>>> is
>>> not informed,that this replacement will be used for later analysis.We
>>> should
>>> motivate the user to add manual translation in order to make it next time
>>> experience better.
>>>
>>>
>> not just these replacements but any change in the target window
>>
>>
>>>
>>> 1. It seems interesting to me to design the way the manual
>>> replacement trinities (original text,translation,manual translation) are
>>> kept and analyzed.
>>>
>>> this should be done having in mind the goal of detecting systematic
>> errors done by Apertium
>>
>> Luis
>>
>>
>>> Best regards
>>> Igor
>>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 10:46 PM, Luis Villarejo <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>
>>>> hi
>>>>
>>>> the get logs option combined with the mining of the logs would ideally
>>>> provide a way to detect repetitive manual ,human, changes to Apertium-s
>>>> output.
>>>>
>>>> If you translate a text and find some error, you can fix it in the
>>>> window on the right. Ideally, this change gets recorded in the logs. If we
>>>> store this logs and find that many users correct the same issue we probably
>>>> found a sistematic mistake in Apertium-s translations.
>>>>
>>>> Luis
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3 April 2011 18:21, Igor Chtivelband <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,Luis
>>>>> I played a little with this "Get Logs" function, but I don't see the
>>>>> way to "polish" the result using it. It only gives me the history of
>>>>> changes
>>>>> I did to the original text and transcript of my actions.Could you please
>>>>> describe a use case how I can provide a feedback for the translation using
>>>>> it?
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> Igor
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 8:01 PM, Luis Villarejo <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Igor,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3 April 2011 19:58, Igor Chtivelband
>>>>>> <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,Luis
>>>>>>> See my comments in the original text.
>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>> Igor
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 4:57 PM, Luis Villarejo <[email protected]
>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Igor,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2 April 2011 20:21, Igor Chtivelband <
>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi,Luis
>>>>>>>>> 1) Without dividing deeply into design ,the main idea of "translate
>>>>>>>>> on the fly" implementation can be having asynchronous calls from
>>>>>>>>> client to
>>>>>>>>> server on "space" key strike event (or even on any key strike event,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Unless you plan to overwrite translation results, you may need to
>>>>>>>> wait until a full stop is found in the text since the translation is
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> done on a word per word basis.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is exactly what I was thinking about - to overwrite the
>>>>>>> translation result after every word.For example if you are trying to
>>>>>>> translate "Happy new year" phrase - the requests from the client to the
>>>>>>> server will be sent 3 times and after getting the response,the whole
>>>>>>> result
>>>>>>> will be refreshed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> depending on the time required to perform the translation and
>>>>>>>>> return the result) and refresh the result window without performing
>>>>>>>>> the post-back. Bottom-line - Ajax principle.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2) I would be glad to implement logging system for web-site,that
>>>>>>>>> will store the data regarding the localization of users,languages
>>>>>>>>> that were
>>>>>>>>> translated,how much time did it take and even the translated
>>>>>>>>> texts.All these
>>>>>>>>> can be used later for the analysis of typical user-profile and
>>>>>>>>> web-site
>>>>>>>>> improvements. I think that for needs of such logging system DB tables
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>> more suitable than writing to the files,in order to fetch and analyze
>>>>>>>>> data
>>>>>>>>> effectively.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The term 'logging' stanading by its own is a little bit ambiguous.
>>>>>>>> Let me explain what I think about when I use 'logging' in the context
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> this web interface: The logging we are thinking on refers to the
>>>>>>>> transformations the user makes to the text translated to Apertium.
>>>>>>>> Tipically
>>>>>>>> the translation is not 100% correct and the user makes use of the
>>>>>>>> tools we
>>>>>>>> have integrated in the web interface to polish the translation. Logging
>>>>>>>> these changes we would have access to information on what things
>>>>>>>> Apertium
>>>>>>>> does incorrectly and how should be changed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ok,now I understand what you meant. Do you have this "polish" feature
>>>>>>> deployed to web-site? I am asking because you say "we have integrated"
>>>>>>> ,but
>>>>>>> I don't see such option in current version of the web site.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have a look at:
>>>>>> http://apertium.vm.bytemark.co.uk/ApertiumAWI/translate.php
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and check the 'get logs' button.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Luis
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>> Luis
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best regards
>>>>>>>>> Igor
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 6:20 PM, Luis Villarejo <
>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Igor,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> thanks for your interest in the project.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The 'translate on the fly' option looks attractive, how do you
>>>>>>>>>> plan to do that? the other points of the scope you described look
>>>>>>>>>> good but
>>>>>>>>>> deeper improvements would also be nice, what about the logging
>>>>>>>>>> system? do
>>>>>>>>>> you have any interest in it? any ideas?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>>> Luis
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 2 April 2011 16:46, Igor Chtivelband <
>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello ,here is my proposal for your judgement
>>>>>>>>>>> I am not familiar well with the rules and norms of this
>>>>>>>>>>> community,so if it seems funny...well...you are invited to laugh.
>>>>>>>>>>> Any feedback will be appreciated and considered by me
>>>>>>>>>>> thoroughly.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Contact details
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Name: Igor Chtivelband
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Email: [email protected]
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Skype: shtivelbus
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Why am I interested in machine translation?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In modern world physical state borders became transparent and
>>>>>>>>>>> with help of WWW people from different parts of the world started to
>>>>>>>>>>> communicate and to share information , however the fact that this
>>>>>>>>>>> information is available in various languages often makes the
>>>>>>>>>>> communication
>>>>>>>>>>> and data sharing difficult. Personally I believe that machine
>>>>>>>>>>> translation
>>>>>>>>>>> can help us with over taking this barrier.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Why am I interested in the Appertium project ?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I loved the simplicity and clearness of Appertium project
>>>>>>>>>>> description, comparing to other open-source projects it took me
>>>>>>>>>>> less time to understand what is the main idea of the project,
>>>>>>>>>>> in addition I see the working demo and it seems good.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What do I plan to do?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Project title: Improvements to the Advanced Web Interface
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I would like to improve the user interface, make it more
>>>>>>>>>>> attractive, intuitive, improve the performance and make it
>>>>>>>>>>> browser-compatible.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Why do I think I can do it?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Talking about my skills I would like to divide them in 3 sections
>>>>>>>>>>> :education, working experience and personal features.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Education: These days I study for European Master on Software
>>>>>>>>>>> Engineering degree in Blekinge Tekniska Hogskola, Sweden. This
>>>>>>>>>>> programme is considered an elite programme leading to a double
>>>>>>>>>>> degree given
>>>>>>>>>>> by 2 different European Universities.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> My bachelor degree in Information Systems I received in
>>>>>>>>>>> Technion,Israel Institute of Technology - leading technological
>>>>>>>>>>> university
>>>>>>>>>>> in Israel.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Working Experience: I worked for 4 years in Intel's development
>>>>>>>>>>> centre as information systems and software developer. During
>>>>>>>>>>> this period I obtained a valuable experience both as individual
>>>>>>>>>>> developer
>>>>>>>>>>> and learned what is needed to be a good team player.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> As part of my job I developed web applications for the company
>>>>>>>>>>> internal needs and had a chance to learn following relevant for
>>>>>>>>>>> this project technologies:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> HTML,CSS, Javascript, RIA (Flex,Silverlight),XML/XSL.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Personal Features: I am disciplined (3 years military service)
>>>>>>>>>>> and ambitious person, thirsty for knowledge and motivated for new
>>>>>>>>>>> challenges. I never participated in open-source projects and I am
>>>>>>>>>>> interested
>>>>>>>>>>> to fill this gap.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What is my availability during summer?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Studies of current semester will be ended on June 1st ,while
>>>>>>>>>>> the next semester I am going to start in Germany in October, thus I
>>>>>>>>>>> have a
>>>>>>>>>>> plenty of free time to be dedicated to the project. In addition as
>>>>>>>>>>> a master
>>>>>>>>>>> student I study frontally only few hours in a week ,so I can start
>>>>>>>>>>> to work
>>>>>>>>>>> on the project as soon as my participation is confirmed.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What am I planning to do and what are time lines?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Scope:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Make the web-site more attractive - work on colors gamma
>>>>>>>>>>> and composition, controls styles, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Improve the performance, check the possibility to perform
>>>>>>>>>>> the translation on the fly (Google style) and not after
>>>>>>>>>>> "translate" click.
>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Localization. The HTML should be generated according to
>>>>>>>>>>> clients location (ip based?) and language should be easily
>>>>>>>>>>> switched using
>>>>>>>>>>> "Language" drop-down list.
>>>>>>>>>>> 3. Cross-browser support. Web-site should be tested in 5 leading
>>>>>>>>>>> browser with option to add a support for mobile browsers.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What are my proposed time lines?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Week 1:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> - Final scope definition (together with mentor)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> - Requirements definition (together with mentor)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> - Configuration of source code environment
>>>>>>>>>>> (Check-in/check-out routines) and learning the formal process of
>>>>>>>>>>> adding new
>>>>>>>>>>> code
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Week 2:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> - Requirements prioritization
>>>>>>>>>>> - Initial design
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Week 3:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> - Design review with mentor
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> - Development of PoC for most important features
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Week 4:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> - Development of PoC for most important features
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Deliverable #1 :design diagrams, working pilot version with
>>>>>>>>>>> partial features
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Week 5:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> - Detailed design
>>>>>>>>>>> - Detailed design review with mentor
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Week 6:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> - Coding
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Week 7:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> - Coding
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Week 8:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> - Coding
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> - Testing
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Deliverable #2: 80% of new features are implemented and work
>>>>>>>>>>> mostly correctly
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Week 9:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> - Closing all gaps in code
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Week 10:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> - Testing
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> - Bug fixing
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Week 11:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> - Testing
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> - Bug fixing
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> - Release planning
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Week 12:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> - Release
>>>>>>>>>>> - Documentation
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Project completed: The new code was deployed to production. The
>>>>>>>>>>> documentation is available in the repository.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Where can you read me CV?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Here
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0BxmQ_CWrHLjvZTcxNDJhZmMtZGUzMy00YjdhLTllZWItZTdmZDUyMDYzZDY4&hl=en&authkey=CMK1-1E
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>> Create and publish websites with WebMatrix
>>>>>>>>>>> Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself;
>>>>>>>>>>> WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and
>>>>>>>>>>> publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Apertium-stuff mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> Create and publish websites with WebMatrix
>>>>>>>>>> Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself;
>>>>>>>>>> WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and
>>>>>>>>>> publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Apertium-stuff mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> Create and publish websites with WebMatrix
>>>>>>>>> Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself;
>>>>>>>>> WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and
>>>>>>>>> publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Apertium-stuff mailing list
>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> Create and publish websites with WebMatrix
>>>>>>>> Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself;
>>>>>>>> WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and
>>>>>>>> publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Apertium-stuff mailing list
>>>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Create and publish websites with WebMatrix
>>>>>>> Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself;
>>>>>>> WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and
>>>>>>> publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Apertium-stuff mailing list
>>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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