Hi Karl: I am sorry if I misheard you.
But if my memory serves me right, you said you agree APNIC needs governance change and you are not a fan of paul wilson, you just have problem with NRS's election strategy. And you voted for me alone because you don't believe a slate of candidates from a single organization.(FWIW, NRS endorsed candidates are actually from different orgs, but I don't think Karl grasps that). You are welcome to clarify. On Sat, 12 Aug 2023 at 17:31, Karl Kloppenborg <k...@rapidwireless.com.au> wrote: > Actually, > > To Lu’s defence we were in a loud bar and during our somewhat candid > discussion I said “I might have voted for you” in another life but that > could be misheard. > > But alas, sorry to burst your bubble. > > —Karl. > > On Sat, 12 Aug 2023 at 19:27, Karl Kloppenborg <k...@rapidwireless.com.au> > wrote: > >> I’d like it released if possible from APNIC to show that I didn’t vote >> for Lu, but nice try, I heard you told a journalist that too. >> >> —Karl. >> >> On Sat, 12 Aug 2023 at 19:26, Lu Heng <h...@anytimechinese.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi Karl: >>> >>> Thank you for voting for me in last election. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, 12 Aug 2023 at 17:24, Karl Kloppenborg < >>> k...@rapidwireless.com.au> wrote: >>> >>>> I’ve refrained from commenting for a while now. >>>> >>>> But the irony of you saying “The internet will finally be free” is the >>>> most laughable comment I’ve seen you expound. >>>> >>>> Yes Lu, I’m sure it’ll be free, free of RIR charges but not free from >>>> leasing those valuable resources from LARUS corporation. >>>> >>>> Speaking of which, where’s Larissa Santos at? I’m still waiting for her >>>> to explain her policies. >>>> >>>> —Karl. >>>> >>>> On Sat, 12 Aug 2023 at 19:19, Lu Heng <h...@anytimechinese.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Chris: >>>>> >>>>> First you suggest members should keep ignorance, then you question >>>>> members' integrity, you simply do not trust the membership, do you? >>>>> >>>>> LARUS works with clients from over 60 countries of different cultural >>>>> backgrounds, we do not judge, to decide our customer's value, opinions, >>>>> instead, we respect their rights to have their views. >>>>> >>>>> And we believe exactly because of this diversity, a single internet >>>>> could exist to this day, otherwise, we will have no internet by now. >>>>> >>>>> By the way, which client of ours do you have problems with? >>>>> >>>>> Yes, we have IP addresses worth some money, but do every APNIC member, >>>>> are you suggesting anyone holding an IP address is conflicted to >>>>> contribute >>>>> to the governance of APNIC? >>>>> >>>>> You want to forbid all APNIC members to participate? >>>>> >>>>> Seriously? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, 12 Aug 2023 at 17:10, Christopher Hawker < >>>>> ch...@thesysadmin.dev> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Lu, >>>>>> >>>>>> I did not suggest or even infer that anyone who voted for you was >>>>>> bribed. I strongly you re-read my statements again. >>>>>> >>>>>> APNIC does indeed have individuals from developing economies that are >>>>>> attempting to build a better internet. Some of these members may be >>>>>> susceptible to having their votes purchased in exchange for "free >>>>>> resources" or financial remuneration. This sort of behaviour is >>>>>> unacceptable. Corruption, bribery and the buying of votes can happen in >>>>>> any >>>>>> economy or service region, and because APNIC covers just over half of the >>>>>> world's population and has one of the largest (if not the largest) member >>>>>> bases, it is more prone to happen within the APNIC region. And to think >>>>>> that it doesn't happen is simply ignorant. It's all about education, >>>>>> training and development to mitigate these risks and prevent them from >>>>>> happening. >>>>>> >>>>>> You cannot advocate for "decentralize the registration database so >>>>>> members will truly own their registration", due to your sheer IP resource >>>>>> holdings that you hold with an estimated secondary market value exceeding >>>>>> $240m USD. This is in itself, what defines a conflict of interest. I >>>>>> don't >>>>>> think you quite grasp that concept. Further, decentralisation of RIRs >>>>>> will >>>>>> not work, as there needs to be some form of registry to manage >>>>>> allocations. >>>>>> This is what the RIRs are designed to do. >>>>>> >>>>>> Further, your advocacy for an "Internet [that] will finally be free" >>>>>> is hypocritical. LARUS supports and works with known state-based or >>>>>> state-controlled organisations that censor and restrict internet use. >>>>>> Before you start advocating for a "free internet" on the world stage, you >>>>>> may want to start advocating to your clients. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> Christopher H. >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> *From:* Lu Heng <h...@anytimechinese.com> >>>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 12, 2023 5:43 PM >>>>>> *To:* Christopher Hawker <ch...@thesysadmin.dev> >>>>>> *Cc:* David Conrad <d...@virtualized.org>; Dilip Kounmany < >>>>>> dlilipk2...@gmail.com>; apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net < >>>>>> apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law >>>>>> reforms >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Chris: >>>>>> >>>>>> Are you suggesting every voter that voted for me in the last election >>>>>> is because of monetary incentives? >>>>>> >>>>>> Your mind of corruption is beyond belief. >>>>>> >>>>>> While bribing voters might work in some poor nations where voters >>>>>> might be forced to exchange their vote for some essentials to live, an >>>>>> unfortunate reality but it does happen, but in terms of APNIC election, >>>>>> such accusation is simply absurd. >>>>>> >>>>>> The voters of the APNIC election are not poor individuals, they are >>>>>> corporations,and many of them are multi billion dollar corporations, some >>>>>> of the world's most wealthy companies. >>>>>> >>>>>> The 700 plus companies that voted for me because they believe what I >>>>>> was advocating for, because they believe their voice has been ignored for >>>>>> too long, because they believe it's time for them to take collective >>>>>> action >>>>>> to do something about the problematic governance of APNIC. >>>>>> >>>>>> In the past 25 years, you and your friends have survived on the >>>>>> ignorance of the membership, stop trying to block their information, stop >>>>>> trying to live on their ignorance. >>>>>> >>>>>> I thank the members who voted for me, and I will continue to advocate >>>>>> better governance for the RIRs, ultimately, decentralize the registration >>>>>> database so members will truly own their registration, they will no >>>>>> longer >>>>>> need to submit to people like you think RIR should be run like an >>>>>> authoritarian government. >>>>>> >>>>>> The Internet will finally be free. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, 12 Aug 2023 at 15:11, Christopher Hawker < >>>>>> ch...@thesysadmin.dev> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> APNIC was never run as a dictatorship. It is simply wrong to even >>>>>> insinuate that it was. As was explained during the community >>>>>> consultations, >>>>>> the EC only used their powers to change the bylaws without a member vote >>>>>> twice in 25 years - once to expand the EC from 5 to 7 members, and to >>>>>> require a super majority of 75% of all EC members to change the bylaws >>>>>> without a member vote. This clearly demonstrates that the EC acts in no >>>>>> other way than for the benefit of the members and should speak as to >>>>>> their >>>>>> values. >>>>>> >>>>>> Allegedly offering monetary and resource incentives, and then >>>>>> (allegedly) asking members to forward screenshots to NRS.help is not >>>>>> helping candidates make an informed decision. The EC members have made a >>>>>> name for themselves within the community through their work and >>>>>> commitment >>>>>> to a better internet. This is where people see value in nominating and >>>>>> voting for them to become EC members. If you really wanted to get out >>>>>> there >>>>>> and campaign for a position on the EC, you would be actively engaging >>>>>> with >>>>>> the community like the current EC members have, not be hung up on APNIC >>>>>> compiling a list of governance contacts for you to send campaigning >>>>>> materials to. >>>>>> >>>>>> While some wording in the current drafted by-law reforms could be >>>>>> construed as vague, the concept remains the same. It's designed to >>>>>> protect >>>>>> members' rights and allow them to have their voices heard as well as >>>>>> protect the interests of APNIC as a whole. Allowing individuals who feel >>>>>> the need to seek redress from APNIC through litigation, then join the EC, >>>>>> is not in the best interest. >>>>>> >>>>>> APNIC members do not need to give candidates any information >>>>>> whatsoever so they can share their election manifesto and thoughts. If >>>>>> people don't wish to vote (although they are strongly encouraged to do >>>>>> so), >>>>>> this is their right. Should they choose to give you their contact >>>>>> information directly in order for you to contact them regarding election >>>>>> campaigning, they are welcome to do so and no one is stopping them. >>>>>> >>>>>> And to refer to the EC and/or Director-General as "power hungry >>>>>> individuals" is downright despicable and disrespectful. The >>>>>> Director-General and EC members of past and present have done nothing to >>>>>> warrant or justify that terminology being used. I feel a public apology >>>>>> is >>>>>> in order. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> Christopher H. >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> *From:* Lu Heng <h...@anytimechinese.com> >>>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 12, 2023 2:59 PM >>>>>> *To:* David Conrad <d...@virtualized.org> >>>>>> *Cc:* Dilip Kounmany <dlilipk2...@gmail.com>; >>>>>> apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net <apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net> >>>>>> *Subject:* [apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi David: >>>>>> >>>>>> I understand you really like the dictatorship mode where first you >>>>>> then paul Wilson can change the bylaw without the membership just like >>>>>> recently demonstrated. >>>>>> >>>>>> But I am afraid this is not how democracy works. >>>>>> >>>>>> Just because under paul Wilson’s leader ship, APNIC’s lawyer put road >>>>>> block into something undemocratic, does not mean it’s right. >>>>>> >>>>>> The lack of governance matter contact for members and folks like you >>>>>> and chris try to forbid members hear the position of candidates and make >>>>>> informed voting decision, is something seriously wrong. >>>>>> >>>>>> With thousands member I have talked to, they all agree. >>>>>> >>>>>> It’s a problem need to be fixed here, not something you yet show off >>>>>> again just like that deed of trust. >>>>>> >>>>>> APNIC member all need to put up a governance contact and engage in >>>>>> its governance process as part of their rights and obligations. >>>>>> >>>>>> We need give power back to the member, not some power hungry >>>>>> individuals. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 at 06:42 David Conrad <d...@virtualized.org> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 10, 2023, at 6:16 AM, Dilip Kounmany <dlilipk2...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> If candidates are reaching out to members during the election period, >>>>>> I don't see any issue with it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Presumably you are familiar with the term “spam” as it applies to >>>>>> electronic communication. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm a bit unclear about what you're opposing here. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Not to speak for Christopher, but you may want to review >>>>>> http://www.apnic.net/db/dbcopyright.html, in particular, the >>>>>> sentence: >>>>>> >>>>>> "Any use of this material to target advertising or similar activities >>>>>> is explicitly forbidden and will be prosecuted.” >>>>>> >>>>>> I’m a bit unclear why you're pretending using contacts from the APNIC >>>>>> database for spam should be acceptable to the community. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> -drc >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> APNIC-talk - https://mailman.apnic.net/apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net/ >>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to apnic-talk-le...@lists.apnic.net >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Kind regards. >>>>>> Lu >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Kind regards. >>>>>> Lu >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> -- >>>>> Kind regards. >>>>> Lu >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> APNIC-talk - https://mailman.apnic.net/apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net/ >>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to apnic-talk-le...@lists.apnic.net >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> -- >>> Kind regards. >>> Lu >>> >>> -- >> >> -- > > -- -- Kind regards. Lu
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