I have yet to taste a honeycrisp that is better than blah or that lacks off-flavors despite the great reputation. Even fruit grown around here (Maine). My original point was that mediocre quality (due to whatever) will eventually undermine this variety.
However, demand is so high that honeycrisp is going into the orchard. As a U-pick operation, I dont expect to have storage related deterioration; also, I expect that someone who picks an apple herself is more likely to be favorably impressed, for no other reason than because she (or her adorable little grandchild) picked it. Steven Bibula Plowshares Community Farm 236 Sebago Lake Road Gorham ME 04038 207.239.0442 www.plowsharesmaine.com From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Hugh Thomas Sent: Friday, January 31, 2014 4:28 PM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] honeycrisp prices Bill, I know I'm rollin' the dice but as long as the trees stay alive I'm willing to loose from time to time with weather On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 7:10 AM, Fleming, William <w...@exchange.montana.edu> wrote: I agree Hugh, this might be one of the best places to grow HC as long as we get by spring frosts, summer hail and single digit first fall frost. I see very little of the bitter pit that seems to plague HC growers elsewhere. The two times Ive lost HC crops due to spring frost didnt seem to throw them into alternate bearing either. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Lane Corvallis, MT 59828 From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Hugh Thomas Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2014 4:40 PM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] honeycrisp prices Bill, On elevation - I was talking to a big name guy in apple research when I attended the hort show and "Honeycrisp Experience" in Washington recently. I asked him about our elevation here in Montana (3500') and the effect of temperature drops of 40-50 degrees every night in the summer. His response was, "you're are gonna' grow the best Honeycrisp in the western U.S." On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 11:03 AM, David A. Rosenberger <da...@cornell.edu> wrote: We first planted Honeycrisp trees at our research lab in 1995, and weve added more HC in various plantings over the years. From my perspective, we are a bit too far south (90 miles north of Manhattan) to get consistently high quality with Honeycrisp. Some years they color well and taste great, but in many years the quality is only fair (at least compared to the best quality Honeycrisp I have eaten), and color can be unimpressive (to put it kindly!). Over-cropping HC is definitely one way to kill eating quality, but I think that harvesting prematurely is a close second. In some years, Honeycrisp show quite a bit of preharvest drop in our region, perhaps because of water stress created by high temperatures between late July and August. In any case, many folks have difficulty delaying harvest to achieve optimum quality when apples worth a dollar each are dropping in large quantities. Folks in northeastern NY (Champlain Valley) can grow excellent HC and they initially reported that they did not have drop problems. However, significant drop also occurred in that region after an exceptional late-July heat wave several years ago. Im not certain if anyone has really done the definitive study on how daytime temps, nighttime temps, water stress, rootstocks, crop load, spray programs (including foliar nutrients), and maturity at harvest interact to create either exceptionally good or exceptionally bad Honeycrisp. We all have some general concepts from observations, but it would be nice to know the acceptable ranges of the multiple variables that impact fruit quality (i.e., good-tasting) fruit. Honeycrisp was my favorite apples for a number of years, but eventually I tired of buying crunch at the expense of the more complex flavors that exist in other cultivars. At this point, Id compare Honeycrisp to a modest quality champagne (some folks always go for the bubbles) whereas better cultivars have the more complex flavor profiles one would expect in an expensive Cabernet. Currently, my personal favorites are freshly harvested SnapDragon, SweeTango, and (perhaps a surprise here) Pixie Crunch. All three of these cultivars have both crunch and complex flavors, especially at harvest when the aroma volatiles that provide much of the flavor complexity are at their best. For a variety of reasons, I doubt that any of these cultivars will ever rise to the level of Honeycrisp in consumer consciousness. First, HC was the first cultivar to stake out totally new territory in the apple market because of its unique texture, and being first has advantages. (Many folks still refer to paper tissues as Kleenex.) Second, good HC hold up well in storage and eating quality of HC can be excellent after 6 months of storage whereas my three favorites noted above all tend to lose some of their flavor volatiles during storage. SnapDragon and SweeTango are still good apples out of storage, just not quite as good as they are at harvest. The managed cultivar status of SweeTango and SnapDragon almost ensure that they will never gain the world-wide visibility that HC has, although those who can find them in stores will hopefully get a more consistent quality apple than has been the case with HC. Finally, most consumers right now seem to want sweet, juicy, crunch and are less selective when it comes to the nuances of good apple flavors. Thus, I would guess that those of us who have experienced top-quality fruit and can differentiate between exceptional and good fruit will always be a minority in the market place. Now, if someone can come up with an easy-to-grow cultivar that has both the HC crunch factor AND complex aroma volatiles that persist through 6 to 10 months of CA storage, that will be the apple that will ultimately displace HC in the marketplace. **************************************************************************** Dave Rosenberger, Professor of Plant Pathology Cornell's Hudson Valley Lab, P.O. Box 727, Highland, NY 12528 Office: 845-691-7231 Cell: 845-594-3060 http://pppmb.cals.cornell.edu/people/dave-rosenberger **************************************************************************** On Jan 30, 2014, at 11:52 AM, Fleming, William <w...@exchange.montana.edu> wrote: Back when I grew apples in North Central Washington they always said you couldnt grow good apples down south in the Columbia Basin so hardly anyone did. Then someone came up with idea of overhead cooling during the hottest days, the Gala and Honeycrisp planting boom started. Huge plantings in the Basin and their efficiency of scale flooded the market putting many growers in the traditional apple growing areas of Washington out of business. Cooling addressed the problem caused by 100° plus days but did little for cool nighttime temperatures which I feel are essential for growing a good tasting apple. Apples from the Basin of all types can look beautiful but taste foul, sort of ruins the market for growers nationwide. Fortunately the current trend is removing apples and planting wine grapes. Also because of new food safety legislation surface canal and irrigation ditch water isnt allowed to get on the fruit, overhead cooling water must be treated or come from a well. I suspect that even more apples will have to come out due to this. Probably good for all of us to get inferior fruit off the market. Here where I now live in western Montana at 3000 feet we can grow excellent Honeycrisp, its almost like they were bred for the area. Night time temperatures are almost always in the 50°s no matter how hot the day. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Lane Corvallis, MT 59828 From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of George Brinson Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2014 6:19 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] honeycrisp prices Same story here on the east coast of Canada ........ maybe it is the climate in which it is grown. HoneyCrisp tastes horrible!! George Brinson From: David Doud <mailto:david_d...@me.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 11:35 PM To: Apple-crop discussion list <mailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net> Subject: Re: [apple-crop] honeycrisp prices " how did anyone find a Honeycrisp that doesn't taste good?" Unfortunately, it's not that hard - We were visiting our son in San Diego in October 2012 (no fruit here, might as well take a trip) and visited Whole Foods, actually caught an upper level produce employee and chatted - he really wanted to turn me onto HoneyCrisp, there was a big display of 4" ones - insipid - and not that good of texture either - On to Trader Joe's, big display of nasty green 2.25-2.75" HoneyCrisp, obviously off overcropped trees - wish I would have taken pictures, but I was on vacation... The ones in the local stores recently have been respectable @ $2.49 to $2.99/pound It's hard to grow good ones - twice the price but half the pack-out - a real temptation to lower standards - HoneyCrisp has generated apple excitement like none other in the last 30 years and has reset the bar - it is the new standard by which other varieties are measured and the traditional varieties don't measure up - Jonagored may compete in its week, but there's no comparison a couple weeks later - David On Jan 29, 2014, at 8:05 PM, Shoemaker, William H wrote: Now the question is, how did anyone find a Honeycrisp that doesn't taste good? Is it the variety? Is it how its grown? Is it postharvest handling? Is it all the above? In our markets around Chicago it is really difficult to find high quality apples of any variety from Washington. They look beautiful, but lack flavor. I think Washington growers produce great apples. They don't show up here. I've had excellent Honeycrisp from local orchards in northern Illinois. In southern IL, they aren't as good. We get Fuji from MI in our local Aldi that are cheap and outstanding to eat. I think local Red Delicious are just delicious. But then, everyone knows, Red Delicious is a terrible apple. Why do we have so much acreage of this apple?!! Bill William H. Shoemaker Retired fruit and vegetable horticulturist University of Illinois wshoe...@illinois.edu _____ The problem is, poorly grown HC are just not good tasting apples. They need a cold winter, heavy thinning to avoid over cropping, calcium sprays every 4-6 days and careful handling. /// On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 2:59 PM, Steven Bibula <sbib...@maine.rr.com> wrote: In Hannaford (a major regional supermarket) today, all apples were 99 cents per pound, except some smallish, mediocre-looking honeycrisp at $2.49 per pound. How long can an apple coast in the premium price range on little more than the name? Steven Bibula Plowshares Community Farm 236 Sebago Lake Road Gorham ME 04038 207.239.0442 www.plowsharesmaine.com <http://www.plowsharesmaine.com/> _______________________________________________ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop _______________________________________________ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop _____ _______________________________________________ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop _______________________________________________ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop _______________________________________________ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop _______________________________________________ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
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