arachne-digest          Friday, June 8 2001          Volume 01 : Number 1546




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Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 14:19:22 -0500
From: "Sam Ewalt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Arachne dying, lynx in good health?

On Tue, 5 Jun 2001 15:40:10 -0900 (PDT), Howard Schwartz wrote:


> Do others have the feeling that arachne is starting its death stroll
> these days, because of the frustration of one or 2 authors trying to
> keep up with all the rapidly increasing amount of nutty web page
> designs, languages, tools, and big-company specific do-dads?


Does anybody *know* what's happening with Michael? He did announce
that Javascript support was "expected in the next release", but 
that was around six months ago. Nothing since then. Is he concentrating
on his other ventures? 

> Strangely, the old Unix standby lynx still seems to be able to give
> a decent rendering to most of the crazy new types of pages. Perhaps
> this is because there are a lot more people maintaining lynx, it
> is such a traditional part of all types of Unix, etc.


It's much easier to ignore than to render. And there are lots of people
involved in ongoing Lynx development.






Sam Ewalt
Croswell, Michigan, USA
- -- Arachne V1.70;rev.3, NON-COMMERCIAL copy, http://arachne.cz/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 21:13:26 +0300
From: Cristian Burneci <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: something wrong at the roots? 

Let's see now...

hda1 =C:\  - primary Windows partition
hda2 = the extended partition with hda5=/, hda6=swap  hda7= /home, all logical 
partitions
hda3 =D:\  - another primary Windows partition

Now, I wonder why Windows fdisk doesn't allow creating more than *one* primary 
partition on a given hard drive. There must be a rock solid reason for this.  
At least try and  unset the bootable flag of the second primary partition.


Mesajul original a fost trimis de Joerg Bartels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  la data 
de Tue, 05 Jun 2001 12:23:46 EDT

> Hello!
> I made the big step from my P60 to a AMD-monster 850MHz with 20GB HD.
> With parts from the trash in my compstore it was only about 300 euro. First I 
> was booting with a Mandrake CD-ROM 8.0 and formating the HD with ext2.
> All works fine but then I saw  I need windows. I made a partition for win98, 
> tryed to install it -and failed. Next try and windows formated the HD! Ok 
> must be my mistake. I made the windowsinstall, windows works Linux was 
> blowing in the wind. I put the Linux-CD back and with DiskDrake I made a 
> Linux partition all works fine. After a time I made a drive d: with DiskDrake 
> and formated it under Linux with FAT32. Under windows there was the
> drive but windows could not read it only after formating under windows.
> Ok long talking- now my question. With some disktools windows crash on the d:
> drive (eg. SequoiaView) and sometimes windows says there are errors in the 
> bootsektor of d: ? -It can fix it with scandisk- Under Linux the disk looks 
> like: /mnt/windows hda1 DOS c:  /mnt/disk2 hda3 DOS d:   / hda5  /swap hda6 
> /home hda7  Is there something wrong with that Partitontab ?
> 
> Thanks for reading!
> 
> regards Joerg -fare from installing his good old DRDOS-


- -- 
Cristian Burneci
DHP Technology SRL
Bucharest, Romania

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 05:15:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Thomas Mueller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux Question?

OS/2 Warp 4 bombed out on me at a time of idleness, at an OS/2 command prompt,
with Trap 000e.  After that, the hard disks were inaccessible, but mysteriously
became accessible again while in DR-DOS 7.03.  Then I booted Linux but couldn't
mount the HPFS partition because it had the "dirty" flag, from OS/2 terminating
abnormally.  So I tried booting OS/2 Warp 4 again, got Trap 000d when CHKDSKing
the HPFS partition on second hard disk, was never able to access hard disks
again, but intend to try and see if I can rejumper and access the hard disks
with one at a time installed.  When I tried subsequently to boot OS/2 Warp 4
updated boot diskettes, I got trap 000d.  However, I can boot Linux N_5380.S
kernel and root diskette, either by diskettes or by LOADLIN, and access the
Iomega external SCSI Zip 250, but when I try to mount the internal SCSI CD-ROM,
the system hangs.

Did you ever try running Arachne in OS/2 Warp Server for e-business VDM?  When
I ran Arachne in OS/2 Warp 4 VDM, it was much slower than under DR-DOS 7.03.
Downloading with DOS Lynx386 was also much slower in OS/2 Warp 4 VDM than under
DR-DOS 7.03.

I found OS/2 Warp 4 Workplace Shell much more user-friendly than Windows.  I was
able to run some Windows programs, even some 32-bit programs with Win32s.  I see
they are running more Win32 programs with Project Odin, and this will be part of
eComStation by Serenity Systems, which is client successor to OS/2 Warp 4.  Most
people in the computer business never heard of eComStation.  Indelible Blue,
sole reseller of eComStation in the U.S.A., went out of business May 31, 2001,
passing the eComStation baton to Prism Data Works
(http://www.prismdataworks.com/ecs)
eComStation has a Web site http://www.ecomstation.com

I would like to see how NetBSD compares to Linux.  (Free, Net, Open)BSD users
keep saying how their OS is sturdier than Linux.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 05:15:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Thomas Mueller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Arachne dying, lynx in good health?

from Howard Schwartz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

   I got a lot of responses to the following when I sent it to the survpc
   list, so it seemed reasonable to send it to the original as well:
   ------------------------

   Do others have the feeling that arachne is starting its death stroll
   these days, because of the frustration of one or 2 authors trying to
   keep up with all the rapidly increasing amount of nutty web page
   designs, languages, tools, and big-company specific do-dads?

   The result is that, while arachne is great at what it does, it is
   increasingly ineffective at dealing with more and more sites, filled
   with real audio streaming something or other, graphic hot spots, etc.
   etc. Probably modern, highlevel html source editors make html
   authors not even know how to write simple, text-based coded. Instead,
   necessary text is all put in GIFs, basic parts of the page are automatically
   rendered, unnecessarily in XMP, TCL, dynamic cgi-scripts etc. etc. etc.

   Strangely, the old Unix standby lynx still seems to be able to give
   a decent rendering to most of the crazy new types of pages. Perhaps
   this is because there are a lot more people maintaining lynx, it
   is such a traditional part of all types of Unix, etc.

   Really too bad, if true.
- ---------------------
(end of quote)

Was Arachne ever really going strong?  Is its death stroll anything new?  But
now, RAM is so cheap, there is no sense buying a new computer with less than
256 MB, computer users move on to bigger things.  Why put up with Arachne's
clumsy scrolling and other comical flaws?

Lynx has the advantage of being open-source, ported to many Unixes and some
non-Unixes too.  Newer versions show all images, including inline, as links,
downloadable or viewable on separate screen.  How many people are working on
Arachne?  Lynx is useful on those super-image-laden Web sites that are just too
slow in a graphic browser.

Didn't we hear some time last year that Arachne was going to be developed for
portable, handheld devices like palmtops and cell phones?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 05:15:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Thomas Mueller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: something wrong at the roots?

from Joerg Bartels:

   Hello!
   I made the big step from my P60 to a AMD-monster 850MHz with 20GB HD.
   With parts from the trash in my compstore it was only about 300 euro. First I
   was booting with a Mandrake CD-ROM 8.0 and formating the HD with ext2.
   All works fine but then I saw  I need windows. I made a partition for win98,
   tryed to install it -and failed. Next try and windows formated the HD! Ok
   must be my mistake. I made the windowsinstall, windows works Linux was
   blowing in the wind. I put the Linux-CD back and with DiskDrake I made a
   Linux partition all works fine. After a time I made a drive d: with DiskDrake
   and formated it under Linux with FAT32. Under windows there was the
   drive but windows could not read it only after formating under windows.
   Ok long talking- now my question. With some disktools windows crash on the d:
   drive (eg. SequoiaView) and sometimes windows says there are errors in the
   bootsektor of d: ? -It can fix it with scandisk- Under Linux the disk looks
   like: /mnt/windows hda1 DOS c:  /mnt/disk2 hda3 DOS d:   / hda5  /swap hda6
   /home hda7  Is there something wrong with that Partitontab ?

   Thanks for reading!

   regards Joerg -fare from installing his good old DRDOS-
(end of quote)

Why did you need Windows?  I intend to prove I don't need Windows when I buy new
computer (then I probably won't need Arachne either, sorry to say).

When anybody but MS writes a program that formats the whole hard disk when you
didn't intend to, they call it a Trojan horse.  When MS writes such a program,
they call it Windows.  Windows has been known to format the whole hard disk on
installing, unlike DOS, OS/2, Linux, (Free, Net, Open)BSD.

I partitioned my second hard disk into three logical partitions, using Linux
fdisk.  I tagged /dev/hdb5 as type 6, /dev/hdb6 as type 7, and /dev/hdb7 as
type 83.  Subsequently I formatted /dev/hdb5 with OS/2 Warp 3 as FAT, /dev/hdb6
with OS/2 Warp 3 as HPFS, and /dev/hdb7 with Linux as Linux native.  MS-DOS 5
and 6.22, and Win98 emergency boot diskette, couldn't access that DOS partition
("Invalid media"), Datalight didn't even recognize that partition at all, but
DR-DOS had no trouble; FreeDOS also read that DOS partition.  Linux had no
problems on these partitions.  MS-DOS and Windows are buggy!  My reason for
downloading the Win98SE emergency boot diskette image was to see if it would
give me the same "Invalid media" message.  Also, this Win98SE boot diskette
couldn't read a diskette in my then working 5.25" 1.2 MB (B:) drive, a surprise
since that 5.25" 1.2 MB diskette was readable to MS-DOS 5 and 6.22 as well as
DR-DOS and OS/2.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 07:58:33 +0100
From: "Joerg Dietze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Arachne dying, lynx in good health?

Hi folks,

I'm a little bit upset about the talking about Arachnes death. Yes,
there are several bugs. Yes, there are several bells and whistles
Arachne is not able to handle. Yes, there are several websites Arachne
can't handle properly due to bad html code or whatever.
But comparing A. with Lynx is not fair at all. Lynx is a text browser and Arachne is a 
graphical
one. For extracting text from html code You don't need a browser. Get the page with 
wget
and read it with Your favorite text editor. If You need graphical
information, like maps,satellite photos, images of Arachne users :-), a
graphical browser is needed. And AFAIK there is no graphical browser for
DOS which is as stable as Arachne, even A.1.70rev.3 is more stable and
more useful than any other thing I tested, including Skipper which comes
with Geos/ Newdeal. I'm using A. since version 1.60b1 for my daily
internet stuff (reading mail, looking at some story pages, reading some
news at web.de) and it _WORKS_.
Speaking about scrolling, remember that when You hit page up or page
down, with a resolution of 1024x786 HiColor about 1.6 MB are to be moved
via Your bus system. Compare this with the speed of Your ISA bus and
You'll know what You can expect. With the exeption of dozeware, there is
no slow software.

Regards Joerg, looking forward for next version of Arachne.

On Thu, 7 Jun 2001 05:15:33 -0400 (EDT), Thomas Mueller wrote:

<snipped Howard's quote>

> Was Arachne ever really going strong?  Is its death stroll anything new?  But
> now, RAM is so cheap, there is no sense buying a new computer with less than
> 256 MB, computer users move on to bigger things.  Why put up with Arachne's
> clumsy scrolling and other comical flaws?

> Lynx has the advantage of being open-source, ported to many Unixes and some
> non-Unixes too.  Newer versions show all images, including inline, as links,
> downloadable or viewable on separate screen.  How many people are working on
> Arachne?  Lynx is useful on those super-image-laden Web sites that are just too
> slow in a graphic browser.

> Didn't we hear some time last year that Arachne was going to be developed for
> portable, handheld devices like palmtops and cell phones?

- -- Arachne V1.70, NON-COMMERCIAL copy, http://arachne.cz/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 00:07:48 -0400
From: "Clarence Verge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Arachne dying, lynx in good health?

On Thu, 7 Jun 2001 05:15:33 -0400 (EDT), Thomas Mueller wrote:

> Was Arachne ever really going strong?  Is its death stroll anything new?

Probably no to both, but strength is relative and there are lots of delays
on death row. ;-)

>But now, RAM is so cheap, there is no sense buying a new computer with
> less than 256 MB,

Why would any reasonable person fill their computer with stuff they don't
need just because it's cheap ?  I'm setting up a new business requiring
four new computers for the engineering department. Are we buying 1.2 Ghz
boxes with 256Mb ram ? No way. 600-800Mhz PIIIs with 128M and that's both
more speed and more memory than we will ever need.
It's not the cost, it's the value.

> users move on to bigger things.

No doubt the majority are moving on to BIGGER things, but WE are moving
on to BETTER things, I hope. <g>

>Why put up with Arachne's clumsy scrolling and other comical flaws?

Mostly because we like Arachne. <G> And for me, it gets the job done in
a more pleasant manner than anything I have ever seen anywhere.

> Lynx has the advantage of being open-source, ported to many Unixes and some
> non-Unixes too.  Newer versions show all images, including inline, as links,
> downloadable or viewable on separate screen.  How many people are working on
> Arachne?  Lynx is useful on those super-image-laden Web sites that are just
> too slow in a graphic browser.

I like Lynx a lot and if I never wanted to see a picture I would certainly
use it. But that's not what most of us want or need. I'm not familiar with
the new Lynxes you speak of.  
Perhaps the PERFECT software would be Lynx-like speed and Kevlar coating
with Arachne's graphic capability.

- - Clarence Verge
- - Back to using Arachne V1.62 ....

------------------------------

End of arachne-digest V1 #1546
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